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2019 Annual Jazzfanz AllTime NBA Draft - Round 2, Match 3 - spycam1 vs Wes Mantooth

Who would win in a 7 game series?


  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

gandalfe

Well-Known Member
Who would win in a 7 game series?

spycam1

PG - Magic Johnson / Kyrie Irving
SG - Joe Dumars / Victor Oladipo
SF - Andre Iguodala / Rashard Lewis
PF - Larry Bird / Kevin Love
C - Alonzo Mourning / Marcus Camby

Wes Mantooth

PG: Isiah Thomas/Mike Conley
SG: Reggie Miller/C.J. McCollum
SF: Kawhi Leonard/Joe Ingles
PF: Chris Bosh/Khris Middleton
C: David Robinson/Al Horford
 
spycam1:

PG: Magic Johnson / Kyrie Irving
SG: Joe Dumars / Victor Oladipo
SF: Andre Iguodala / Rashard Lewis
PF: Larry Bird / Kevin Love
C: Alonzo Mourning / Marcus Camby

Write-up:

I think Wes has one of the best teams in this tournament. Both teams have defense, spacing, intangibles, and chemistry. I think it would be a great series. It would be full of trash talk and physical play.

Having said that, I think my team would win for a few reasons:

1. I have the two best players in the series: Magic & Bird.

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Both are Mt. Rushmore candidates. When you have not only the best player in the series but the two best players, chances are you're going to win. There are very few exceptions to this principle.

2. Mismatches at the PG and PF positions.

This series showcases the types of positional mismatches Magic and Bird create. Traditional PGs can't match up with the size of Magic, and prototypical PFs can't match up with the perimeter play of Bird.

Thomas was only 6'1, while Magic was 6'9. This would cause problems on both ends of the court for Thomas.

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When they faced each other in the 1988 Finals, it was Magic who won. In that series, Magic averaged: 21 PPG, 13 APG, 6 RPG, 2 SPG, and shot 55% from the field (meanwhile, Thomas shot less than 43%).

The following season, the Pistons and Lakers faced each other again in the Finals, but Magic was out for the series with a hamstring injury. In Magic's absence, it wasn't Thomas who stepped up; it was Joe Dumars. Dumars went on to average 27.3 PPG, 6 APG, while shooting 58% to lead Detroit to a title, and take home Finals MVP. In other words, Isiah never beat Magic in a series; the one time he beat the Lakers, it was because Magic was out, and even then, Dumars was the best player on his team.

Having said all that, Bird would create the biggest mismatch in the series: Bird vs Bosh.

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Chris Bosh has no chance of guarding Larry ****ing Bird on the perimeter (or even in the post for that matter). Bird could play this series left handed and still make Bosh cry.

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This mismatch is so bad for Wes' team, his options would be this:

1. Have Bosh guard Bird, allowing Bird to dominate for 40+ every game.
2. Have Kawhi guard Bird, which would result in Bosh guarding Iguodala. Iggy would then have laughably easy drives to the basket:

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3. Bench Bosh, starting Joe Ingles or Khris Middleton--neither of whom deserve to start in a competition like this.

3. Defensive Match-Ups

Wes' top three scorers are David Robinsnon, Kawhi Leonard, and Reggie Miller, who will all be guarded by world class defenders: Alonzo Mourning, Andre Iguodala, and Joe Dumars.

David Robinson (and anyone entering the paint) has to score on 2X DPOY Alonzo Mourning.

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Reggie Miller has to score on Joe Dumars (5X All-Defense).

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Kawhi has to score on Andre Iguodala (2X All-Defense).

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Kawhi would also see time against Larry Bird (3X All-Defense; 25th all time in Defensive Win Shares; 9th all time in Playoff Defensive Win Shares).

In sum, my team would have a much easier time stopping Wes' than his would have stopping mine. Wes' top scorers will all be guarded by world class defenders. On the other hand, Thomas/Bosh cannot guard Magic/Bird; Thomas and Bosh have combined for zero all defensive teams. Magic and Bird are the two best players in this series, and they would have a field day against those defenders.

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Wes Mantooth:

PG: Isiah Thomas/Mike Conley
SG: Reggie Miller/C.J. McCollum
SF: Kawhi Leonard/Joe Ingles
PF: Chris Bosh/Khris Middleton
C: David Robinson/Al Horford
 
By far the 2 best players on the court are Magic and Bird. They would dominate this game. As good as Leonard is, he isnt in the same conversation as those 2 yet.

Having 2 top 10 all-time players is hard to beat in this competition.
 
By far the 2 best players on the court are Magic and Bird. They would dominate this game. As good as Leonard is, he isnt in the same conversation as those 2 yet.

Having 2 top 10 all-time players is hard to beat in this competition.
There is an easy argument to be made that they are 2 of the top 5.
 
I actually like Wes team better by a tiny bit.
But...... This is one of those instances of matchups making the difference. My vote will go to spy. (Still can't vote or do polls or anything on the app though so I will vote later)

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Jesus christ, Magic and Bird...why would we even have a 3rd round?

@Wes Mantooth You need to post your write up, man. Justify this **** lol
 
Kawhi is vastly underrated (he’ll end up in top 5 of all-time conversation imo) but spy I suppose has the better starting 5.
 
This should be a closer vote imo. I think wes has the better squad but it's close. The nostalgia effect in full force here.
 
This should be a closer vote imo. I think wes has the better squad but it's close. The nostalgia effect in full force here.
So we're talking primacy bias?

(God I've hated seeing "recency bias" written so much here, so I had to throw out its opposite term, cuz I'm a dick like that)
 
Looking at the roster I am surprised Spy decided to start Iguodala. What is the reasoning? Was this specific for just this match, or is this the go to for you?
I would have started Love at PF and Bird at SF. This move would put a better defender on Wes' best offensive player (Kawhi), and also add a deadly 3pt shooter for Magic to set up. 6'1" IT can't stop 6'9" Magic from driving, but it's not like you can help off of Bird, Dumars, and Love/Lewis. Also, I don't love the idea of Bird trying to body up some of the stronger PF in the tournament, but think he would be excellent on any SF.
 
Wes, FWIW, I think you constructed a top 3 team. Your pieces actually fit together. It has both spacing and defense. It has different types of leaders and clutch performers. Well done.

Sent from my SM-G973U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Wes, FWIW, I think you constructed a top 3 team. Your pieces actually fit together. It has both spacing and defense. It has different types of leaders and clutch performers. Well done.

Sent from my SM-G973U using JazzFanz mobile app
Top 3 is a reach. Let’s say top 5. I actually voted for him then changed to ye after realizing you also have Larry Legend.
 
Looking at the roster I am surprised Spy decided to start Iguodala. What is the reasoning? Was this specific for just this match, or is this the go to for you?
I would have started Love at PF and Bird at SF. This move would put a better defender on Wes' best offensive player (Kawhi), and also add a deadly 3pt shooter for Magic to set up. 6'1" IT can't stop 6'9" Magic from driving, but it's not like you can help off of Bird, Dumars, and Love/Lewis. Also, I don't love the idea of Bird trying to body up some of the stronger PF in the tournament, but think he would be excellent on any SF.

Love could start, if the situation demanded it. But this isn't one of those situations.

Bird creates a much bigger match-up problem at the 4 than he does at the 3. If I were to start him at SF in this series, suddenly his primary defender is Kawhi. By starting him at the 4, he's being defended by Bosh. Few teams' starting 4 would be able to keep up, and Bosh certainly can't. Bird on the other hand, can keep up just fine with traditional PFs. He was 6'9/6'10, had a career average of 10 RPG (the exact same as Karl Malone), and made All-Defense three years in a row. Also, I've got Alonzo Mourning protecting the paint anyway.

On the other end of the court, Iggy is obviously a superior defender than Love, and gives my team better overall defense as a unit. This is particularly important, since I want this team to force TOs and get out and run.

I also think a Showtime team needs an athletic slasher to be on the receiving end of lobs in the fast break and half court sets. Imagine Iggy running the fast break with Magic and Bird. Iggy is just the perfect Swiss army knife; he's basically a mini Pippin.
 
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