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Biden vows to Fight Putin "To the Last Ukranian"


babe

Well-Known Member
Henry Kissinger proposed a peace deal, settling land to Russia for peace. 99 years old, and he can still talk pretty good, and understand things as well as ever.


today, Russian forces are closing in on the last strongholds in Luhansk, near Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, where there are about 50,000 Ukranian soldiers dug in. There are about 8000 Ukranian soldiers already taken as prisoners in the area. Zelensky is pleading for heavy weapons, former NATO generals are saying it will take months to train soldiers to use them. Russian forscdes are digging in on battle lines in Kherson and Zaporishne, already fairly protected by a large river with no bridges left standing. Similar trench lines are being build near the Russian borden near Kharkiv, in Ukraines' northeast. today I saw some figures on Russian successes in destroying ammo dumps, arms shipments, and high tech weapons deployed against them. It appears that Russia is aiming to take the "separatist" oblasts to their borders, and build defenses there.

American military intelligence analysts are talking about a Russian interest in Transnistria, NW of Odessa on the Moldavan border.

If you look at voter maps in elections from 2000 to 2021, the areas Russia has occupied actually had a majority of pro-Russian voters. 60% say. Plenty of people in these areas have felt disenfranchised by anti-Russian suppression under Zelensky.

Henry Kissinger was I think suggesting a return to the battle lines pre Feb. 24th, but Russia isn't going to do that. Putin had a long list of offenses considered "existential" threats to Russian national interests and Western manipulations inside Ukraine. I believe he will halt his campaign along these lines. He can airlift troops to Transnisdtria if need be, he doesn't need to take Odessa, which has been catacombed and made into a virtual Azovstal type of war camp. Zelensky may fight to the bitter end in the last Luhansk strongholds, but there will be tens of thousands of prisoners taken when they run out of ammo or food.

This is a stupid war for us. But Old Joe is gonna fight it to the last Ukranian standing. Useless war for anyone, really. Russia is indeed protecting Russian ethnic people. he could just let them all emigrate to Russia, but Russian national territory up to 1954 justifies Luhansk and Donetsk being Russian territory by history and by inhabitants. There are over 1 Million refugees in Russia from these areas who want to go home and rebuild their countries.

Western resistance to peace on these terms is equivalent to a declaration of war on Russia, the WWIII Mother of alll Oil Wars.
 


Red

Well-Known Member
If you look at voter maps in elections from 2000 to 2021, the areas Russia has occupied actually had a majority of pro-Russian voters. 60% say. Plenty of people in these areas have felt disenfranchised by anti-Russian suppression under Zelensky.
I believe both you and Putin are making the same miscalculation….


“Growing support after 2014 across Ukraine for an overarching, civic national identity - based on Ukrainian citizenship rather than ethnic identity - was the most crucial change. It offered a means to unite ethnic Ukrainians and ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

My latest research examines the strength of a citizenship-based, civic national identity in Ukraine and how it relates to ethnic identity and language.

Quantitative and qualitative survey data offers evidence of how weak Ukrainians’ attachment to Russia and how strong their attachment to Ukrainian citizenship had already become before 2022, even among ethnic Russians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians.

Most respondents viewed a civic national identity based on citizenship as an important part of their self-identity. More participants in the survey saw this kind of national identity as an important or very important part of who they are than those who felt that way about the region they live in, the language they speak or their ethnic identity. Comments from respondents about the importance of being a Ukrainian citizen included statements like “Because I love my country”; “I do not betray my country”; and “I am proud of Ukraine, and I am a patriot.”

The results also underscore that it is not contradictory for people to perceive this kind of national identity as an important part of their identity while also feeling the same way about their ethnic identity, spoken language or region. In Ukraine at least, ethnic identity and a multiethnic, civic national identity are not the incompatible rivals they’re sometimes thought to be.

And so I wasn’t surprised to read about Oleksandr Vilkul’s staunch defense of Ukrainian sovereignty. A powerful politician in southeastern Ukraine, Vilkul had long espoused support for the rights of Russian speakers and closer ties with Russia. In early May 2022, The New York Times reported that the Russians approached Vilkul with an offer to align with the invading Russian forces.

Vilkul’s response?

“Get lost.”………

“…….Putin’s aggressive actions in the years leading up to the 2022 invasion had convinced Russian-speakers like Vilkul in eastern and southern Ukraine to think of themselves, first and foremost, as Ukrainians….

To the extent Ukrainians and Russians in Ukraine see themselves as one people, they increasingly do so as part of a multiethnic Ukrainian national identity anchored by shared citizenship and a shared love of the country Putin’s forces continue to assault.”
 
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babe

Well-Known Member
I believe both you and Putin are making the same miscalculation….


“Growing support after 2014 across Ukraine for an overarching, civic national identity - based on Ukrainian citizenship rather than ethnic identity - was the most crucial change. It offered a means to unite ethnic Ukrainians and ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

My latest research examines the strength of a citizenship-based, civic national identity in Ukraine and how it relates to ethnic identity and language.

Quantitative and qualitative survey data offers evidence of how weak Ukrainians’ attachment to Russia and how strong their attachment to Ukrainian citizenship had already become before 2022, even among ethnic Russians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians.

Most respondents viewed a civic national identity based on citizenship as an important part of their self-identity. More participants in the survey saw this kind of national identity as an important or very important part of who they are than those who felt that way about the region they live in, the language they speak or their ethnic identity. Comments from respondents about the importance of being a Ukrainian citizen included statements like “Because I love my country”; “I do not betray my country”; and “I am proud of Ukraine, and I am a patriot.”

The results also underscore that it is not contradictory for people to perceive this kind of national identity as an important part of their identity while also feeling the same way about their ethnic identity, spoken language or region. In Ukraine at least, ethnic identity and a multiethnic, civic national identity are not the incompatible rivals they’re sometimes thought to be.

And so I wasn’t surprised to read about Oleksandr Vilkul’s staunch defense of Ukrainian sovereignty. A powerful politician in southeastern Ukraine, Vilkul had long espoused support for the rights of Russian speakers and closer ties with Russia. In early May 2022, The New York Times reported that the Russians approached Vilkul with an offer to align with the invading Russian forces.

Vilkul’s response?

“Get lost.”………

“…….Putin’s aggressive actions in the years leading up to the 2022 invasion had convinced Russian-speakers like Vilkul in eastern and southern Ukraine to think of themselves, first and foremost, as Ukrainians….

To the extent Ukrainians and Russians in Ukraine see themselves as one people, they increasingly do so as part of a multiethnic Ukrainian national identity anchored by shared citizenship and a shared love of the country Putin’s forces continue to assault.”

This is a civil response, and thank you.

I think it is propaganda, but it does reflect a lot of hard work of political activists who have been in Ukraine building that view, with Western financial support and a number of home-grown media and oligarchic powerhouses.

Your friends at the Brookings Institution have been working hard, as well as other outfits even the Council on Foreign Relations and the British sister at Chatham House.

Oil interests perhaps broadly associated with the US Rockefeller interests, and British "City of London" interests including the Royal Asses.

I believe Putin, Xi, and other world leaders have developed a view similar to mine about the unipolar US/UK hegemony in global politics, a sort of allergy to further manipulations which do not reflect their interests well enough. And that is why well over half of the global population today share my view here that this is another proxy war in Ukraine where US/UK/NATO alignment has caused this war with a determined, deliberate provocation of decades-long violations of previous treaties and agreements Russia once relied upon, which are all shot to hell now.

I'm not going to just believe Xi did not help get the Ukraine War started, pretty much the same we did everything to build the nationalism of "Free Ukraine", with sympathetic assurances. Xi wants Russia and Europe pre-occupied and perhaps even too busy to give him trouble in Asia. It's the very old "Divide and Conquer" thing. Our aim, for sure, is to wear Russia down. Declining demographics like young cannon-fodder "patriots" means both Russia and China have a shorter "window of opportunity" to gain more relevance in global matters.

Few significant countries actually have growing or younger population demographics. A lot of Americans think "open borders" is just a communist-based program to do the Cloward-Piven thing on America, but it is actually one thing that strengthens us across the world. No Cannon Fodder shortage here. And our military weapons manufacturing corporates are in fine shape, with the best products money can buy.

I don't know if dictatorial economics will ever really beat all that America can do, but we are not yet really on board with William J. Fulbright's thesis in "Arrogance of Power" that the US should emulate the British commonwealth and set up a willing proxy to lead the world without annoying the whole damn world so much that popular opinion and perception does not just bring the house down on us.
 
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babe

Well-Known Member
So here is where I think Putin is on Ukraine.

He realizes some of the deficiencies in his tyrranny with internal dissidents/in-house opposition, and fake supporters who are really just sympathetic with Western ideals or political slogans. I think that means some efforts to dig out the internal disloyal elements. Maybe a rise in the Gulag internments and such. Maybe more eliminations of opponents. Internally, his largest opposition is the old USSR communist party remnants. Some of those folks might be very susceptible to recruitment from Western communist organizations or maybe even oligarhic interests, maybe even CFR/Chatham House figures.

I don't know anything about Putin's health or personnel networks, but I do believe there is a pretty strong Russian nationalism and Russian self-identity.

I'm pretty sure Putin got outright false "information" about possible Ukranian support rising up to meet his invasion. I believe Western leaders, specifically Joe Biden, but including a strong US/UK subversive network had been working hard since the Maidan coup in 2014 with a specific intent to suck Russia into an unwinnable war.

So, as an exercise in thought......

Let's say Mexican "intelligence agencies" couple with Mexican Nationalist like, say La Raza, with lots of financial support went to work in Texas. Texan Nationalism media outlets, Mexican cartel interests. All that. Texas really isn't a "British Outpost", after all. Let's say..... China, for example, got some Mexican bases and started building missile silos in Chihuahua, and selling a lot of tanks and rockets.

I think the Ukraine war was a long-term Western project, since 1991. On purpose. NATO, rather than being a defense organization, has now become an offensive military tool.

I think the primary drivers for the international divide have a lot of pretty strong roots in Africa, the Middle East, and South America because most people see the fact of this exact long-range program.

I think less than 15% of all Ukrainians, and less than 30% of ethnic Russians still living in Ukraine have a positive view of the invasion, but it is a lot more than Western propaganda and think tanks are willing to say.

I think Putin is pretty close to just digging in and making various claims to having succeeded in protecting ethnic Russians and having local support in occupied areas. He will also be working hard to build effective weapons in response to whatever technology we deploy in Ukraine. He intends to stand his ground, the taken ground. It will cost a lot of Ukranian lives to take it back. That offensive will cement global notions of this damn proxy war, and the tide will turn against us.

People like Henry Kissinger and John Mearsheimer will get more favorable notice.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgiZXgYzI84
 
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babe

Well-Known Member
It is a fact that politicians in Ukraine were almost all against the Russian invasion, and even pro-Russian figures spoke out against it.

Here is Poroshenko now, saying that "unity" has been betrayed, that the Zelensky government has broken it.

(This is a piece from Al Jazeera)

Ukraine ex-President Poroshenko says blocked from leaving country​

Former Ukraine President Petro Poroshenko has claimed he was barred from leaving the country, accusing the government of breaking a so-called political ceasefire in place since Russia invaded.

After Russia invaded, Ukraine’s parliament banned several pro-Russian parties and allowed others to operate under a so-called political ceasefire, a tacit understanding that all parties would put aside domestic political disagreements to unite against the war.

However, Poroshenko’s office said he “was refused to cross the border of Ukraine”, accusing the government of violating the agreement.
 
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babe

Well-Known Member
Looking around today.

Lots of news.

In the Philippines, where moolah for votes is a national industry, "Bong Bong" Marcos, in alliance with outgoing President Duterte, has won a landslide victory in the election. Ferdinand Marcos Jr. President Ferdinand Marcos became a dictoator under martial law in 1972 and over the next 13 years killed tens of thousands of political opponents or dissidents. Journalists in the Philippines suffered mass executions that went unprosecuted. Marcos enjoyed support from US Rockefeller interests. One of Manila's posh surburbs is named "Forbes Park" and is a kind of "Little America" behind armed guards and security walls.

Marcos says he wants better relations with Communist China. But the Philippines claims a number of rocky shoal in the South China sea where China parks military ships.

"The Quad", the us, Japan, Australia, and India alliance that is supposed to check China's expansionist ambitions, met in Tokyo, and China and Russia flew jets around to get noticed, while NK launched some missiles into the sea.

India shows up with Russia, getting cheap oil and military weapons from Russia, as an important ally with Russia and China, in BRICS. Brazil, Russia, India and China, and South Africa. A growing economic block building the Chinese Belt and Road.

Russia and its "Wagner Group" get very bad press coverage in Western media, with accusations so vile it's astonishing the whole world doesn't puke. Libya. A civil war. Syria, Sudan, Russia and other foreign actors ()need I say CIA/MI6, Israel) all horning in.

Italy calling Russia's Africa activity a threat to NATO.

The US Council on Foreign Relations is claiming to be the high moral ground the World must see as leadership. With "the News people must believe".

A lot of this war is going to be rhetorical, essentially propaganda.

Biden is pretty bad, but Trump and Mark Levin are also idiots.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
I don't believe everything I read in anybody's press. But here is something to think about:

As the Russia-Ukraine war enters its 94th day, we take a look at the main developments.

A Ukrainian serviceman boards a car in the village of Mayaky, Donetsk

A Ukrainian serviceman boards a car in the village of Mayaky, Donetsk [Andriy Andriyenko/AP Photo]

Think about this where you read our media all outraged about russian atrocities.

Here is a Ukranian soldier getting into a civilian car. Thinking nothing of it. I've seen some good video footage of Ukranian military use of religious sites (Churches), apartment buildings, theatres, everything. Hiding behind civilians is a universal tactic. Japanese soldiers in WWII put indigenous people in the mouths of caves where troops tried to hide. We roasted them with flame throwers. Even Mark Levin's uncles and such.

The fact of Zelensky's deliberate sacrifice of civilian lives in this war is evident in masive proportions when an underground labyright of tunnels under the Azovstal plant in Mariupol, with over 2500 soldiers inside, has to be evacuated of hundreds of civilians as Russian soldiers wait them to leave. Our media immediately blames Russians for attack on evacuation corridors where active Ukranian units are still nearby. Not clear who is shooting at whom.

Then there are population centers where Ukranian soldiers are always making some kind of last stand.

At one moment our press is lauding the "universal" public resistance, then the next praising the conviction of a Russian soldier for war crimes when he shoots a civilian using a cell phone to geotag his unit's location.

This war has taken us all into another generation of warfare, and elevated propaganda beyond what it ever could be without our social media and everyday modern technology. We really do NOT want this kind of war. We really do not want governments controlled by oligarchs and financial elites like the DAVOS people. We really do not want this "mother of all oil wars".

the deliberate polarization of Ukraine by Western and Russian interests might force us to draw a new map, but we don't want this kind of war mentality building new conflicts all over the world.

Russia and China do not have "Western" ethics or legal traditions. Our own departure from historic standards is very concerning to me. Is there no hope for human rights in the emerging multipolar order? We have to break our Press down and build another system with more objective reporting and better moral highground.

We are not prepared to build a better world if we tear this one down, we have no moral center to build it with. Just fads of one kind or another, and some damned idiots with money who can incite a mob.
 
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babe

Well-Known Member
A review of events is overdue here.

The most objective, in my estimation, information we can get online, or via personal sources, seems to sustain the fact that Ukraine has activated some national guard type units, against their will, to stand as dummies or cannon fodder while the most motivated and best trained "Nazi" sosrts of units withdraw to safety. In the recent advances in Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, Putin announced that he was leaving a path for withdrawal, preferring that to encirlcement and anniihlation like Azovstal was. The charge is that Ukranians are almost always setting civilians at the entrances to military positions, setting up positions in hospitals, schools, industrial plants, apartment buildings etc. The Ukrainians are leaving tons of booby trap devices behind to slow Russian advances, many of them declared illegal under international law because of their endangerment to locals.

Our media has been a lying damn set of organized politcal hacks for a long long time. I saw in the weekly readers passed out in the fifties. If you get the old WWII historical documentaries, put out after the close of WWII, you can see the same thing. Even people like Patton and MacArthur were on the globalist line, preaching Brit/UK/NATO unipolar globalization as the only path to world peace.

In truth, there are the same folks who got us into WWI and WWII, and who will now lead us into WWIII.

The facts have been suppressed in every case. WWI and the Russian Revolution were British-instigated wars to protect the new version of the British Empire by dividing the outlanders and getting them to fight each other. The same political necessity was voiced in the movie "Eagle in a Cage" by the British foreign minister who was looking to re-install Napoleon and get him the financing for a new round of European wars. Responding to a critic who lamented all the lives lost, he said "As long as they are not British lives".

The Brits have written the book on Proxy Warfare.

And America has been their service crew. We are dupes beyond compare.

The "Global South" is uniting under the understanding that it's time to end the US/NATO/UK hegemony and unipolar world order.

For all I know, this is part of the idea of restructuring the world backed by our chief influencers, but it will cost the world the chance to have governments that can be objectively answerable to their citizens. There is nowhere in this world where that idea even exists, except in the United States and a minority of British Commonwealth folks.

Nowhere else has the Magna Carta or US Constitutional concepts of government been ever developed in the least degree.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
I have revised my opinion about Putin and the Russian Nationalists, though.

I have earlier stated that there is no way any rational person can believe that the old USSR can be rebuilt, what with all the marginal area governments being pretty much liking independence.

Now I believe that the overt NATO aggression program has backfired. A lot of those "independent" folks now see it as a threat, enough to justify rebuilding as a larger federation of states, rather than just being swallowed up p;iece by piece with "The Woke West">

A review of Russian "propaganda" supports this conclusion. Putin will not negotiate away anything he can hold for piece, because evidently "The Woke West" is determined to make it an all-or-nothing World War in fact. The is no room left for negotiations.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
A;m;nestty International has finally stated the obvious. I mean, I've been seeing pics of battle scenes, artillery hits, drone strikes since Feb 24 that clearly show this is the case.

Ukraine is systematically locating its fighting forces behind civilians in sites like schools, churches, hospitals, mines, steel plants, fertilizer factories....... whatever.


Besides blowing up dams in front of the Russian advance on Kiev which resulted in flooding many villages and killing hundreds of civilians, their own civilians.

This is a "Bowery War" by which I mean people like Putin, Xi, Biden, EU officials are fine with just watching the peole get bombed to smithereens. No diplomaatic effort to stop it. Just another war game, and an excuse to order biollions more in military stuff from their favorite industrialists.

God damn them all.
 


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