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Burks as horrible on defense as Foye

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by franklin, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. franklin

    franklin Well-Known Member

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  2. vegas

    vegas Well-Known Member

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    Going by defensive rating here?
     
  3. homeytennis

    homeytennis Well-Known Member

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    There's a reason he's riding pine.
     
  4. Gas

    Gas Well-Known Member

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    I've been saying it long before the stats could prove it.

    Burks is terrible on defense. He tries to get up and play too close to the guy he is guarding, which doesnt help him stay in front of his guy, and makes him committ fouls easily. He looks weak playing defense too. I cringe watching him play defense, because like everyone else, I want him to be really good. His offense is good enough he should play though and learn how to play defense.
     
  5. Jeffrey32

    Jeffrey32 Well-Known Member

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    He'll learn. The fact that he is playing close shows his aggressiveness, but I think he needs to balance that with watching film and learning the tendencies of the people he is guarding.
     
  6. Zulu

    Zulu Well-Known Member

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    I don't buy it...
     
  7. pickledXgrandma

    pickledXgrandma Well-Known Member

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    Burks>Kobe
     
  8. vegas

    vegas Well-Known Member

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    BYE likes this.
  9. Pouyan

    Pouyan Member

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  10. LunaticWolf

    LunaticWolf Well-Known Member

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    Bulls are a pretty damn good defensive team bro.
     
  11. franklin

    franklin Well-Known Member

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    This is the same old argument as PER listing Jefferson top ten. One or two might sneak through the cracks in the top ten, but after that it doesn't miss many and becomes more reliable. It's not like anyone is saying Durant, LBJ, Kobe, CP3, Anthony, Duncan, Lopez, Wade, or Westbrook sucks because Jefferson is also listed. These stats are pretty reliable when it comes down to the bottom of the pile.

    Burks has the same DRtg as Foye but a 16 point deficit in ORtg. Corbin is justified in his bench Burks no brainer.

    Outside all that, it looks more like a sophomore slump to me. Burks has regressed in several categories. That comes with the comfortable in your skin territory.
     
  12. billyshelby

    billyshelby Well-Known Member

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    Foye has been ridiculously hot. I'd bench anybody for Foye over the last 5. That's just game management.

    The problem is Foye will go back to missing and his minutes won't go down. I'm not convinced Ty understands what Foye's usefulness is. Ty thinks he has a complete game, or his experience is a big deal. In reality he's a shooter. It's no big deal to give a shooter 10 minutes one night, and 30 the next. That's what shooters are.
     
  13. sojodave

    sojodave Well-Known Member

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    Burks > Torrey Ellis
     
    franklin likes this.
  14. vegas

    vegas Well-Known Member

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    Not arguing against, but man you didn't even link Foye's stats. So I looked them up , and looked up the top ten to gain perspective on how bad things are. To your poiint the top Drtg player for the league has always been a renowned defender.

    I also take it with a grain of salt. Drtg is a for a player is basically defensive +/-. It can show trends, or a player can be hammered by his teammates. Ortg on the other hand is specific to the individual.

    The sad fact is that Boozer is not bad enough to pull down the Bulls D this year, who knows, maybe he even learned something. Lunatic also makes a good point that Boozer is helped by a good defensive team. Interestingly, if you hadicap him the difference between the Jazz & Bulls overall (~5.5 pts), only Favors, Evans and Jefferson have a better rating.

    If somebody has synergy, I would love to see some of their defensive stats on Burks and Foye to see if there is additional insight.

    While we are looking at the Drtg, look at the entire team, worst to best:
    1. Mo
    2. Hayward/Foye
    3. Burks/Marvin
    4. Pearl
    5. Tinsley
    6. Kanter
    7. Murphy/Carroll
    8. Sap
    9. Jefferson/Evans
    10. Favors
    So we should also discuss that Marvin and Hayward are also as bad a as Foye.

    What does this mean? For me, it means that the Drtg is a bit all over the board for the Jazz. The range is 101-111. Starters and reserves end up on both ends of the list, and they don't correlate with many opinions that are common:
    Hayward and Marvin are usually thought of as good defenders, AL as bad (at least pick 'n' roll). I would also expect Mo to be the best of the pgs.

    I am open to hear that there is a relevant patten to the above list. I just don't see it right off the bat. The only thing that jumps out is that the team is #21 in the leaugue, no bueno.
     
  15. Weezur

    Weezur Well-Known Member

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    Whoa Hayward is 2nd worst on the team?
    /thread

    Whoa Jefferson is 9th best on the team?
    /thread

    Whoa Mo Williams is worse than Tinsley?
    /thread
     
  16. franklin

    franklin Well-Known Member

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    You win.
     
  17. Dr. Jones

    Dr. Jones In pursuit of #9 Contributor

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    I've been saying all along that Burks has the physical part of the game down, but we'll have to see if he has the mental.
     
  18. Brown Notes

    Brown Notes Well-Known Member

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    You're a good man, Charlie Brown.
     
  19. The Norm

    The Norm Banned

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    Welp looks like we can put this thread in the trash and move on.
     

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