Coronavirus

[LogGrad98]

She got exactly what she deserved, not sure on the legality of it though.

Maybe he got what he deserved too. You don't know.

 

[Beer]

84k cases. Could we have prevented this through public policy the same way Europe has? Here are the numbers from Europe for Friday. I grabbed the ones I saw. Feel free to add any as one wishes.

UK: 20,530
France: 42,032
Spain: 19,851
Italy: 19,139
Germany: 13,476
Belgium: 16,746
Netherlands: 9,996
Poland: 13,632

Here's what those numbers would look like if they had the same population size we do:

UK: 100,199
France: 205,141
Spain: 138,112
Italy: 103,685
Germany: 53,092
Belgium: 477,831
Netherlands: 189,160
Poland: 117,400

It's almost as if we have much less control over this than we want to believe. That or Trump has really mismanaged the European crisis.

My wife literally just walked in and showed me a Bernie Sanders tweet about USA death rates and how they are worse. I can't wait to throw this back in her face because a month ago telling me the US screwed everything up and Europe was in the clear now. Do you have links you used for this or anything a little more "scientific" than a jazzfanz post?

 

[Beer]

Why spread this disinformation? What do you think the consequences of undermining the science will be?

From what I understand and have been hearing for 6 months or so this is kind of true. Not sure about the other countries part but in terms of reporting the american covid deaths it seems to be in the ballpark of truthfullness.

 

[Beer]

Lockdown continues in Melbourne, started at the end of June, we had 7 cases today, city of 5 million remains shut, feel like this is never going to end. All i want is a counter meal at the pub with some mates and to be able to go to the gym and work out. Seemingly impossible at the moment.

TBH I'd much much much take the USA's seemingly relaxed approach than Australias. And I also think labeling the USA's approach as relaxed is a stretch too. Gavin over in California is absolutely ******** the bed far worse than Trump is right now. He's just flailing, not using reason or logic at all, just to kiss the *** of the CA elite for whom this pandemic doesn't really effect all that much.

 

[Gameface]

From what I understand and have been hearing for 6 months or so this is kind of true. Not sure about the other countries part but in terms of reporting the american covid deaths it seems to be in the ballpark of truthfullness.

Doctors and hospitals don't get paid more simply for labeling a death COVID related. So that part is not true.

All deaths in the U.S. are reported with co-morbidities, meaning if a person has diabetes and then gets the flu, the cause of death is diabetes and the flu. That's how we've always done it and there's no reason to change for COVID-19. So his complaint doesn't make a lot of sense.

COVID-19 in not an international competition. Doing better than another country doesn't mean we're winning. But it's very telling that Trump sees it that way.

 

[One Brow]

Not sure about the other countries part but in terms of reporting the american covid deaths it seems to be in the ballpark of truthfullness.

This not at all in the ballpark of truthfulness.

The "only 6%" gambit: The latest viral COVID-19 disinformation

New COVID-19 disinformation deceptively claims that "only 6%" of the deaths attributed to COVID-19 were due to coronavirus. It's nonsense.

respectfulinsolence.com

For example, if a patient dies of respiratory failure due to acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), which was the result of pneumonia, which was the result of COVID-19, the proximal cause of death was the respiratory failure, but contributing causes were ARDS and COVID-19, with the one farthest up the chain being the underlying cause of death under Part I. If the patient had hypertension or asthma, that would go under Part II. As I like to say, if you suffer a cardiac arrest due to blood loss after being shot, the cardiac arrest might have been the proximal cause of death, but you still died of a gunshot wound.

 

[infection]

My wife literally just walked in and showed me a Bernie Sanders tweet about USA death rates and how they are worse. I can't wait to throw this back in her face because a month ago telling me the US screwed everything up and Europe was in the clear now. Do you have links you used for this or anything a little more "scientific" than a jazzfanz post?

worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I was just pulling the raw data from each of those countries for those specific days. I broke down the conversion of what their numbers would look like with our population by using each the population of each country compared with ours.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

TBH I'd much much much take the USA's seemingly relaxed approach than Australias. And I also think labeling the USA's approach as relaxed is a stretch too. Gavin over in California is absolutely ******** the bed far worse than Trump is right now. He's just flailing, not using reason or logic at all, just to kiss the *** of the CA elite for whom this pandemic doesn't really effect all that much.

Gavin is the worst. I hope it all comes back to him and he gets voted out for crushing peoples financial lives so he could get some media atta boys. The economic repercussions haven't fully hit...

Homeboy said 56% of Californians would get it in like 8-10 weeks back in March... Instead of roasting the guy for being so damn wrong we slap his back and tell him how great his **** smells.

 

[Beer]

This not at all in the ballpark of truthfulness.

The "only 6%" gambit: The latest viral COVID-19 disinformation

New COVID-19 disinformation deceptively claims that "only 6%" of the deaths attributed to COVID-19 were due to coronavirus. It's nonsense.

respectfulinsolence.com

So saying there is a 90 year old, in a nursing home, with a non operable tumor, just riding out hospice care until they died. Seems like something that is not that uncommon for these deaths. They may have contracted covid, but they were centimeters away from death in the first place. Would they be labeled as a COVID death for the graphs? Or a 75 year old, not in the hospital, luckily just dies in his bed during his sleeo, never diagnosed during his lifetime, showed no symptoms, but is tested post death and is found to have COVID 19. Would this count as a COVID death?

Because from what I understand, both cased would count as a covid death despite COVID most likely being a very small part of their cause of death or basically playing no part at all.

 

[Beer]

Gavin is the worst. I hope it all comes back to him and he gets voted out for crushing peoples financial lives so he could get some media atta boys. The economic repercussions haven't fully hit...

Homeboy said 56% of Californians would get it in like 8-10 weeks back in March... Instead of roasting the guy for being so damn wrong we slap his back and tell him how great his **** smells.

I mean he is handsome AF and knows how to wear a slick back hairdo but imo he is just as full of **** and delusional as the Donald himself.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I mean he is handsome AF and knows how to wear a slick back hairdo but imo he is just as full of **** and delusional as the Donald himself.

He reminds me of two-face from Batman... I just get some evil villain vibes from him.

 

[Gameface]

So saying there is a 90 year old, in a nursing home, with a non operable tumor, just riding out hospice care until they died. Seems like something that is not that uncommon for these deaths. They may have contracted covid, but they were centimeters away from death in the first place. Would they be labeled as a COVID death for the graphs? Or a 75 year old, not in the hospital, luckily just dies in his bed during his sleeo, never diagnosed during his lifetime, showed no symptoms, but is tested post death and is found to have COVID 19. Would this count as a COVID death?

Because from what I understand, both cased would count as a covid death despite COVID most likely being a very small part of their cause of death or basically playing no part at all.

On a bit of a side note, what harm is there in counting deaths of people who have COVID-19 as COVID-19 deaths? Like what would we gain if we didn't count them?

 

[Beer]

On a bit of a side note, what harm is there in counting deaths of people who have COVID-19 as COVID-19 deaths? Like what would we gain if we didn't count them?

Fear mongering that COVID is far far more dangerous than it really is leading to economic shut downs, small businesses closing, large business lay offs, kids losing out on homes and food, schools closing, parents having to figure out how they can work and have their kids at home, parents not being able to work at all, etc .... all so a bunch of people who are knocking on deaths door can get a few more months in a nursing home.

Now that is obviously dramatic but I don't think it is as far off of reality as some think. The people hit hardest by the COVID regulations are the kids and the lower income families. I'm just not confident that the "cure" which has proven to be 100% fiction isn't worse than the disease.

So yes, I wear masks, I sanitize the **** out of my hands after every outing into public, but CA's regulations for example and @The Thriller fear mongering doesnt help either.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Fear mongering that COVID is far far more dangerous than it really is leading to economic shut downs, small businesses closing, large business lay offs, kids losing out on homes and food, schools closing, parents having to figure out how they can work and have their kids at home, parents not being able to work at all, etc .... all so a bunch of people who are knocking on deaths door can get a few more months in a nursing home.

Now that is obviously dramatic but I don't think it is as far off of reality as some think. The people hit hardest by the COVID regulations are the kids and the lower income families. I'm just not confident that the "cure" which has proven to be 100% fiction isn't worse than the disease.

So yes, I wear masks, I sanitize the **** out of my hands after every outing into public, but CA's regulations for example and @The Thriller fear mongering doesnt help either.

The overreaction and crazy restrictions I think are counterproductive to getting compliance on the **** that matters too. Just my experience but some of the folks I know are like "**** newsome I'm not doing his **** so I'll only wear a mask if they make me at the store". I have to give them the well actually the masks are smart and keeping some distance is good. When you have all the extra bull **** like wiping down the target conveyor belt after every customer it makes it hard to sell the other stuff to people.

 

[Gameface]

Fear mongering that COVID is far far more dangerous than it really is leading to economic shut downs, small businesses closing, large business lay offs, kids losing out on homes and food, schools closing, parents having to figure out how they can work and have their kids at home, parents not being able to work at all, etc .... all so a bunch of people who are knocking on deaths door can get a few more months in a nursing home.

Now that is obviously dramatic but I don't think it is as far off of reality as some think. The people hit hardest by the COVID regulations are the kids and the lower income families. I'm just not confident that the "cure" which has proven to be 100% fiction isn't worse than the disease.

So yes, I wear masks, I sanitize the **** out of my hands after every outing into public, but CA's regulations for example and @The Thriller fear mongering doesnt help either.

I think we saw for a little bit in New York and in Italy that if you allow infection rates to overwhelm the medical infrastructure that death rates go up significantly, so while mitigation efforts are not stopping COVID-19 I think in a lot of ways they are preventing deaths.

I think we should do our best to understand who is dying and what other factors are involved, but this idea that the people who are dying were all just about to die anyway is false. I think we're talking years lost not months in many of these cases. And with no mitigation more and more potentially non-life threatening cases become life threatening.

And it isn't as though we've changed the way we classify cause of death. Why would we change it now just to make COVID-19 look less bad?

Around 300,000 more people have died in the U.S. than were projected to die this year. So we're NOT overcounting COVID-19 deaths. And when that many more people die than were expected to die that isn't old people that were on death's door. That's 300,000 more people dying than would have died if there was no COVID-19.

 

[Beer]

I think we saw for a little bit in New York and in Italy that if you allow infection rates to overwhelm the medical infrastructure that death rates go up significantly, so while mitigation efforts are not stopping COVID-19 I think in a lot of ways they are preventing deaths.

I think we should do our best to understand who is dying and what other factors are involved, but this idea that the people who are dying were all just about to die anyway is false. I think we're talking years lost not months in many of these cases. And with no mitigation more and more potentially non-life threatening cases become life threatening.

And it isn't as though we've changed the way we classify cause of death. Why would we change it now just to make COVID-19 look less bad?

Around 300,000 more people have died in the U.S. than were projected to die this year. So we're NOT overcounting COVID-19 deaths. And when that many more people die than were expected to die that isn't old people that were on death's door. That's 300,000 more people dying than would have died if there was no COVID-19.

Where I stand. COVID is far more contagious than originally though. But it is also far less deadly. When the average death age for a COVID death is over the average normal death rate that leads me to believe they are right on the cusp of dying anyways in the very near future. Now, I don't want anyone dying but I am also a realist, or a pessimist, that if you are 75 plus and you die them's the breaks. I'm not wasting any time worrying about that.

Another HUGE huge HUGE issue is the lack of a realistic end goal or game plan. Just creating laws, or guidelines, based off absolutely nothing and then expecting people to just fall in line just because is so stupid. If you don't actually have any clue as to what is happening or how to stop it make a few patently obvious changes like requiring masks in public places and cut out all the BS like outdoor thanksgivings, chewing with masks on, no hair salons, etc ....

It's so delusional on these politicians parts. I get it you don't have to be intelligent or reasonable to win a seat in office, but god damn it really should be.

 

[One Brow]

So saying there is a 90 year old, in a nursing home, with a non operable tumor, just riding out hospice care until they died. Seems like something that is not that uncommon for these deaths. They may have contracted covid, but they were centimeters away from death in the first place. Would they be labeled as a COVID death for the graphs?

1) That's a call for their doctor, as it should be.
2) That's not a significantly high number of covid19 deaths.

Or a 75 year old, not in the hospital, luckily just dies in his bed during his sleeo, never diagnosed during his lifetime, showed no symptoms, but is tested post death and is found to have COVID 19. Would this count as a COVID death?

1) Why are they testing for SARS-COV2 post-mortem? I don't think that is a thing.
2) If they didn't show symptoms, they didn't have covid19, even if they are positive for SARS-COV2. The general public treats them as the same thing, but they are not.

Because from what I understand, both cased would count as a covid death despite COVID most likely being a very small part of their cause of death or basically playing no part at all.

What are your sources for this understanding?

If @infection is willing, I would love to hear his confirmations and corrections of my responses.

 

[One Brow]

Fear mongering that COVID is far far more dangerous than it really is leading to economic shut downs, small businesses closing, large business lay offs, kids losing out on homes and food, schools closing, parents having to figure out how they can work and have their kids at home, parents not being able to work at all, etc .... all so a bunch of people who are knocking on deaths door can get a few more months in a nursing home.

We are using the same standards for deciding covid19 deaths that we use for cancer deaths, flu deaths, etc.

 

[The Thriller]

Both parties are the same. Why hasn’t Pelosi passed a covid relief bill in the senate? Both parties are the same...

 

[Rubashov]

TBH I'd much much much take the USA's seemingly relaxed approach than Australias. And I also think labeling the USA's approach as relaxed is a stretch too. Gavin over in California is absolutely ******** the bed far worse than Trump is right now. He's just flailing, not using reason or logic at all, just to kiss the *** of the CA elite for whom this pandemic doesn't really effect all that much.

No cases, no deaths last two days. Pubs open at midnight tonight. Giddy up!