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So here’s part of my post from March 16 regarding the fomentation of fear being a short-sighted strategy that would backfire:


I think an adequate appraisal of the situation is called for, because I think the hysteria is going to have some serious unintended consequences. Obviously there's a huge range of possibilities that can happen, so saying 'have an adequate appraisal' is somewhat of a silly notion. But people out there feeling justified in fomenting fear so that people will "take it seriously" is so incredibly short-sighted. I will grant that many people propagating the fear genuinely believe it. With regard to fear, I'm not talking about taking precautionary measures such as closing schools, working from home, limiting contact, not going out, etc. I'm talking about needless conjecture that has no basis. Something like the idea that's been passed around that 'because the federal government waited, millions will die.' There an idea that if you're not out there subscribing to this thought process, that you're not taking this serious enough and do not understand the gravity of the situation.

...

Yes, we need to take this seriously. Yes, we need to exhibit cautions as prevention is much easier than cures, even if you overdo it. But no, making claims about millions dying as a result of delayed action not only has no basis, but is not actually helpful. Think beyond this current crisis and think to the next time another infectious disease, or other public health crisis, arises that carries with it an even larger burden of mobidity and mortality. How effective will the short-term strategy of now translate then? Yes, we need to get people to take it seriously. No, beating people over the head with hysterics will not get them to take it seriously, but will do far, far more damage for the public good and trust the next time a crisis comes along.

tl;dr none of us have any idea what will happen, despite referencing evidence that may lean one way or the other. It's better to be cautious than be sorry, but if you feel people aren't taking something serious enough, simply ratcheting up the fear isn't actually going to change those peoples' behaviors, and in fact may drive them the other way. But you yourself may feel better, even though you have not helped with any change. Try a different approach, because I'd like everyone to be more cautious, too, and I recognize that your behavior "helping" isn't really accomplishing that.

When I originally wrote this, it was referencing this backfiring for some other issue in the future. I didn’t intend that it would immediately backfire and directly on the same subject. We find ourselves in such a situation now. We rationalized the sensationalism in the name of promoting seriousness, and there has been widespread underreport (or complete non-reporting) of the plethora of good news that has come out relative to what we had previously thought. I think on one hand, people may not wish to emphasize any of this because they feel it undermines their message of the severity of the situation, but ultimately I believe people will fundamentally believe that they’re not getting a clear picture of what’s happening, that there’s not any honest appraisal, and people end up tuning them out.

This is probably at least in large part one of the resistances to masks — people have persistently been told how bad everything will be and is, with no acknowledgement of the many ways in which we know a lot more about the virus now than we did then, and that the vast majority of what we know about is has been positive relative to our understanding then. So these people have consistently been told that they’re stupid, and they’ve tuned out. Think of a similar approach to trying to increase seatbelt usage rates of teenagers. Yes, automobile fatalities are very serious and being in a motor vehicle accident without wearing a seatbelt drastically increases your chances of major injury and/or death. It’s definitely an important public safety measure to increase seatbelt compliance, especially among teenagers. But if we’re consistently telling them that they’re going to die if they don’t wear a seatbelt, the vast, vast majority of all of them will come to learn by experience that nothing bad happens when they’re going out. You have to have a lot of kids wearing their seatbelt all the time to prevent one automobile fatality. For any given individual, they themselves probably are at a very low absolute risk of harm not wearing a seatbelt. The problem is when you have larger populations that will eventually capture more and more automobile accidents, you’re going to start seeing the large difference in relative risk. But simply telling teenagers how stupid they are and how dangerous they are for not wearing a seatbelt isn’t actually going to help, and likely will probably push them to being more defiant. Granted, there are some level headed people out there that have reached out sensibly regarding masks and education, but the vast majority of the message is coming from shaming, talking about how they’re putting everyone’s life in danger, etc. But the reality with masks, just like seatbelts, is that for every individual being shamed, their chance of actually being someone contracting or spreading COVID is still quite low. It’s only something that’s arising at the population level, just like automobile fatalities. So if we want people’s behavior to change, we may need to look at another approach. But if we’re fed up with them and are more content with reducing our anxieties about it by shaming them and venting on them, then we ca do that, too. We just have to decide what exactly it is we want.

Of course, we could assume that we shouldn’t have to explain these things or burden ourselves with that responsibility. And perhaps there’s an element of that that is true. But I would liken this to being a pedestrian. When you have the crosswalk sign, you have the right of way. You shouldn’t have to worry about a car hitting you. But just because you shouldn’t have to doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t. When I enter that crosswalk, I assume that nobody is going to see me. I assume that I don’t have the right of way because my safety comes first, far and above prioritizing my assumptions of what I think should happen.

But, anyway, I think a decent size of this is that we’re reaping what we’ve sown. But, also, I think there’s a level of let down that, from a simplistic view, people hate the idea of these “rubes” being “right,” and any good news about COVID must make people feel that, somehow, this must validate these people, and in an effort to maintain footing against them (as this is ultimately a culture war), we move on to the next battle that’s viewed as winnable (from the perspective of a culture war). Thus, more emphasis on masks than what’s going on with the virus.
 
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Trump says he looks like the Lone Ranger in a mask, lol....



Hi Ho, Silver! Away!



 
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Well, I guess youth will be served. Mostly in bars and clubs....


In Arizona, half of all positive cases are people from the ages of 20 to 44, according to state data. The median age in Florida is 37, down from 65 in March. In Texas’s Hays County, people in their 20s make up 50% of the victims.

In Houston, where hospitals have been strained by the influx of patients, many young people are in intensive care, David Persse, the city’s director of emergency medical services, said during a media briefing Monday.

“They are extremely ill,” Persse said. “If they’re thinking, ‘I’ll get sick and then I’ll get over it,’ recognize that 15% of the people in ICUs now are in their 20s and 30s.”
 
What’s the solution, though?

In any case, one thing I suspect we will be seeing over time is a cluster of vague, occasionally disabling, symptoms labeled “chronic COVID,” much similar to what Lyme disease has become, that gets pushed quite a bit by lay society and functional medicine practitioners, dismissed generally by the medical establishment, but elevated as a huge source of concern in news articles, retweets, and Facebook posts.

our government can do a lot more. Where’s the PR campaigns for masks and social distancing? Where’s the tests? Where’s the antibody tests? Funding for hospitals? The government should do a lot more to shore things up in this area.

Where’s the $2,000 dollar payments like Canada has to sustain its citizens? Providing workers with pay to keep them home will help stop this spike.

Where’s the daily or weekly briefings to keep citizens engaged?

we’re 0/2 on the first two and the last one, Trump used briefings to hold mini rallies to air his grievances. If this is a war we’re doing it pretty half assed.
 
So here’s part of my post from March 16 regarding the fomentation of fear being a short-sighted strategy that would backfire:




When I originally wrote this, it was referencing this backfiring for some other issue in the future. I didn’t intend that it would immediately backfire and directly on the same subject. We find ourselves in such a situation now. We rationalized the sensationalism in the name of promoting seriousness, and there has been widespread underreport (or complete non-reporting) of the plethora of good news that has come out relative to what we had previously thought. I think on one hand, people may not wish to emphasize any of this because they feel it undermines their message of the severity of the situation, but ultimately I believe people will fundamentally believe that they’re not getting a clear picture of what’s happening, that there’s not any honest appraisal, and people end up tuning them out.

This is probably at least in large part one of the resistances to masks — people have persistently been told how bad everything will be and is, with no acknowledgement of the many ways in which we know a lot more about the virus now than we did then, and that the vast majority of what we know about is has been positive relative to our understanding then. So these people have consistently been told that they’re stupid, and they’ve tuned out. Think of a similar approach to trying to increase seatbelt usage rates of teenagers. Yes, automobile fatalities are very serious and being in a motor vehicle accident without wearing a seatbelt drastically increases your chances of major injury and/or death. It’s definitely an important public safety measure to increase seatbelt compliance, especially among teenagers. But if we’re consistently telling them that they’re going to die if they don’t wear a seatbelt, the vast, vast majority of all of them will come to learn by experience that nothing bad happens when they’re going out. You have to have a lot of kids wearing their seatbelt all the time to prevent one automobile fatality. For any given individual, they themselves probably are at a very low absolute risk of harm not wearing a seatbelt. The problem is when you have larger populations that will eventually capture more and more automobile accidents, you’re going to start seeing the large difference in relative risk. But simply telling teenagers how stupid they are and how dangerous they are for not wearing a seatbelt isn’t actually going to help, and likely will probably push them to being more defiant. Granted, there are some level headed people out there that have reached out sensibly regarding masks and education, but the vast majority of the message is coming from shaming, talking about how they’re putting everyone’s life in danger, etc. But the reality with masks, just like seatbelts, is that for every individual being shamed, their chance of actually being someone contracting or spreading COVID is still quite low. It’s only something that’s arising at the population level, just like automobile fatalities. So if we want people’s behavior to change, we may need to look at another approach. But if we’re fed up with them and are more content with reducing our anxieties about it by shaming them and venting on them, then we ca do that, too. We just have to decide what exactly it is we want.

Of course, we could assume that we shouldn’t have to explain these things or burden ourselves with that responsibility. And perhaps there’s an element of that that is true. But I would liken this to being a pedestrian. When you have the crosswalk sign, you have the right of way. You shouldn’t have to worry about a car hitting you. But just because you shouldn’t have to doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t. When I enter that crosswalk, I assume that nobody is going to see me. I assume that I don’t have the right of way because my safety comes first, far and above prioritizing my assumptions of what I think should happen.

But, anyway, I think a decent size of this is that we’re reaping what we’ve sown. But, also, I think there’s a level of let down that, from a simplistic view, people hate the idea of these “rubes” being “right,” and any good news about COVID must make people feel that, somehow, this must validate these people, and in an effort to maintain footing against them (as this is ultimately a culture war), we move on to the next battle that’s viewed as winnable (from the perspective of a culture war). Thus, more emphasis on masks than what’s going on with the virus.

This is well said. For me I think the focus has to be on what things can 95% of the people do to limit the virus for the next 6-12 months... while carrying on a semi normal life. As you said though they may not get compliance at this point in part because they were fear mongers.

Out here in CA our governor said 25M Californians would get the virus in the next two months... that was in March. Here we are in July with 232k cases... so clearly we won right? I mean reducing cases by 100x of estimate is a blowout victory! Then why shut down restaurants in 19 counties yesterday because things are out of control. So when you through that out there and then are so effing wrong you lose the trust of people who might take more reasonable precautions.

I was extremely diligent with distancing for about 4 weeks... now I will wear a mask... I'm not dining out at restaurants unless I can sit outside... I'm washing my hands frequently and thoroughly but I've returned to some of the normal activities because I'm not going to be a hermit... I can live this way normally for the long-term. since the governor is trying to bubble wrap the citizens like a helicopter mom people are being dumb and dismissing everything any expert is saying.

Then you have what Trump is doing and saying... which is reckless.... the answer lies somewhere in between these two sides of the spectrum... just like many other answers to the issues that are harming our country. Its like parenting... be the overly strict parent that only lets they kids watch Disney movies and your daughter ends up pregnant at 15. Be too loose and your son OD's at a rave.
 
Man this is

Neil Cavuto wasn’t taking it today. Well done. @colton thought you might enjoy this because you’ve vouched for some of these normal Fox News guys before. This is awesome. If only Fox News could fix the rest of their programming...
 
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And you should see our case fatality rate compared to all those countries.
Not sure what is your point but it is more about current travel ban lift from those countries ( USA citizens still banned from entering)... plus you guys are kind of ignorant about masks too..
 
Not sure what is your point but it is more about current travel ban lift from those countries ( USA citizens still banned from entering)... plus you guys are kind of ignorant about masks too..
And we're still three months behind Italy, to top it off!
 
our government can do a lot more. Where’s the PR campaigns for masks and social distancing? Where’s the tests? Where’s the antibody tests? Funding for hospitals? The government should do a lot more to shore things up in this area.

Where’s the $2,000 dollar payments like Canada has to sustain its citizens? Providing workers with pay to keep them home will help stop this spike.

Where’s the daily or weekly briefings to keep citizens engaged?

we’re 0/2 on the first two and the last one, Trump used briefings to hold mini rallies to air his grievances. If this is a war we’re doing it pretty half assed.

I get that we have a federal system, with some power residing in our states, and some in federal government. But the response of this administration has been to create a situation where we seem to be more akin to 50 independent nations. Frankly, it’s been a disgraceful response. The coronavirus called for national leadership, but it was not forthcoming.

A crisis that affects our nation requires a coordinated response on the part of our federal government. Not this government. Yes, each state must respond on the ground, locally, but where the **** was our federal government? Trump actually chewed out blue state governors as if they were foreign adversaries! WTF kind of response is that! Are you ******* kidding me? Are we the UNITED states, or not? Where the hell was the federal government? Demanding that we open up, it will disappear. What a ******* joke. I guess we’ve fallen a long way from the days of the Greatest Generation.

Here’s an American’s view from France. He’s perplexed. I’ve been perplexed from the start:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/america-land-pathetic/613747/

American leadership has politicized the pandemic instead of trying to fight it. I see no preparedness, no coordinated top-down leadership of the sort we’ve enjoyed in Europe. I see only empty posturing, the sad spectacle of the president refusing to wear a mask, just to own the libs. What an astonishing self-inflicted wound.

America is my home, and I have not emigrated. I have always found the truest expression of my situation in James Baldwin’s label of “transatlantic commuter.” I have lived in France off and on since the early 2000s, and it has been instructive over the decades to glimpse America’s stature reflected back to me through the eyes of a quasi-foreigner. If the country sparked fear and intense resentment under George W. Bush and mild resentment mixed with vicarious pride under Barack Obama, what it provokes under Trump has been something entirely new: pity and indifference. We are the pariah state now, but do we even see it?
 
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Large scale retrospective study of hydrixychloroquine published today showed a halving of death rates .. interesting
 
Large scale retrospective study of hydrixychloroquine published today showed a halving of death rates .. interesting

And WHO just ended their trial claiming it’s not effective.

Hard to justify if it’s working if everyone is getting different results. No easy answer unfortunately.
 
And WHO just ended their trial claiming it’s not effective.

Hard to justify if it’s working if everyone is getting different results. No easy answer unfortunately.

this was a widely peer reviewed larger scale study published in the international journal of infectious diseases.

The WHO one ... not so much
 
dude I’m technologically illiterate.

still think herd immunity is going to be the only way this thing drifts away unfortunately. Gonna be a long couple of years
I'm tech illiterate too lol. No worries.

I still don't understand if or how herd immunity works. I mean the flu has been around for a long time and I have had it numerous times. I feel I herd immuned the **** out of the flu but alas, I can still get it I reckon.

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