Did we take any steps back defensively?

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by infection, Jul 11, 2019 at 1:25 PM.

  1. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    10,815
    7,588
    428
    May 27, 2010
    I know that's the concern. I do wonder if it's accurate, though. We started with Favors and I believe the duplication between him and Gobert were giving diminishing defensive returns. I believe the question is the backup center spot where we'll have those 18 minutes of Davis instead of Favors. It does appear that Favors' largest impact was offensive in addition to his offensive boards. Davis is grabbing a lot more offensive and defensive boards than Favors. Davis still athletic. I'm not sure there's any drop off. If so, I don't think it's noticeable.

    There's always been mixed opinions on Ricky's D. He's bigger, for sure. And I know some argue the idea is to funnel people into Gobert, but I'm not sure I buy it. With Conley staying in front of his man and picking up some steals, I think this is a net plus. Then there's the argument of less turnovers and transition baskets. However, I don't know how much that really impacts things because the difference in turnovers per game between the two is 0.7, so if the other team is converting on even 75%, it's only about a point per game.

    With Bojan, he's essentially sliding into a lot of Jae's minutes. Jae's D was more about intensity and hustle than simply defense, so while there's some drop off there, I don't know that it's significant.

    Hopefully with less offensive load, Donovan can play more D. I think Green matching up on more of these small ball fours may be a bit more effective. And if Exum actually plays this year, you've got that.

    Overall, I don't believe we're any worse on D. If we are, I believe that it's negligible, while our offense has really shot up.
     
  2. Stoked

    Stoked Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

    38,172
    4,967
    263
    Dec 13, 2011
    I think we did take a step back but that’s from elite to great. So I’m not really worried. Meanwhile our offense took two or three steps forward. From mediocre to great.

    One step back two or three forward.
     
    campaignist, One Brow, tfivas and 3 others like this.
  3. silesian

    silesian Well-Known Member

    3,839
    631
    163
    May 30, 2010
    Jingles was overused last year. With more rest and fresher legs, his D will pick up. But he is a year older. So nvm.
     
    campaignist and JazzAvenues like this.
  4. Ostertag>Duncan

    Ostertag>Duncan My Members Premium Contributor 2019 Award Winner

    3,545
    1,749
    198
    May 26, 2010
    Also take into account with better offense (more made baskets, less turnovers) comes better defense. It allows us to set up more.
     
  5. SCS

    SCS Well-Known Member

    3,867
    1,661
    178
    Jun 23, 2016
    Great post. I really hope you're right.
     
  6. Engorged On Unborn Gore

    Engorged On Unborn Gore Well-Known Member

    1,070
    420
    118
    Oct 3, 2015
    Yeah, I don’t think this can be overstated. It is the exact reason why Golden State ranked as high as they have in D for the last five years.

    Made shots = a significant % of defense. The Jazz are going to take a leap in FG and EFG next season.
     
    JazzAvenues and Ostertag>Duncan like this.
  7. SCS

    SCS Well-Known Member

    3,867
    1,661
    178
    Jun 23, 2016
    This is an excellent point. I had not even thought about that. So many times last year we turned the ball over like crazy or we took bad shots that allowed the opponent an offensive advantage. And we STILL played elite defense. Imagine our defense if our offense stops gift wrapping easy points to our opponent...
     
    JazzAvenues and Ostertag>Duncan like this.
  8. NAOS

    NAOS Well-Known Member

    18,467
    3,033
    263
    May 27, 2010
    Lots of good points mentioned so far.

    Here's my little contribution:

    There'll be more LOAD MANAGEMENT this year than in previous years. That'll take our best players (and defenders) off the floor a bit more during the regular season. This'll produce some kind of noise in the statistics we use to answer the question about whether we've taken a step back or not.

    All things considered, I don't feel bold in my expectation that the Jazz maintain a top-5 defense.
     
  9. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member 2019 Prediction Contest Winner

    19,913
    2,387
    263
    May 27, 2010
    Royce may take some of Jae Crowder's minutes this year, which would help a bit. The loss of Favors and Udoh likely has an impact though.
     
    campaignist likes this.
  10. Joncolton

    Joncolton Well-Known Member

    136
    54
    48
    Jan 11, 2015
    I think we took a step forward. Conley > Rubio and Davis = Favors. As long as we are in the top 5 in defense and NOW possibly in the top 5 in offense - we'll have a real shot at winning the title.
     
  11. ChicAggie

    ChicAggie Member

    58
    73
    18
    Jun 21, 2019
    Assuming we are losing Favors (103 DRtg), Udoh (105 DRtg), Rubio (106 DRtg), Crowder (107 DRtg), Neto (106 DRtg), and Thabo (103 DRtg) (all plus or plus-plus defenders) and replacing them with Davis (105 DRtg), Green (109 DRtg), Bojan (112 DRtg), Conley (108 DRtg), and Mudiay (113 DRtg) (all but Davis below average or WAY below average defenders), then it seems almost impossible to imagine that we will maintain the same level of defensive efficiency we have had over the past couple seasons. The countervailing factors are (i) a significant part of defensive efficiency has to do with a team concept, buy-in, and system, and I believe Snyder's system is one of the best in the league which will hopefully improve the defensive efficiency numbers of each of the incoming players; (ii) more made shots on the offensive end reduces the amount of transition offense/defense, significantly helping defensive efficiency, and I expect we should have roughly 4-6 additional made baskets per 100 shots with our incoming roster compared to our outgoing roster; (iii) a significant part of defense is effort, and Snyder and teammates will not stand for subpar effort; and (iv) Gobert.
     
  12. Saint Cy of JFC

    Saint Cy of JFC Well-Known Member

    80,274
    8,031
    393
    May 27, 2010
    Hopefully Mitchell can get better on D now that his offensive load will be less stressful. Thats probably the area the Jazz have for the biggest defensive growth. Hes been average at best after being touted as a high potential defender.

    I even think Royce/Bojan replacing all of Crowders minutes is a big area for defensive growth. I think Crowder was mostly mediocre on D last year.

    And Exum hopefully playing more.
     
    Ostertag>Duncan and NAOS like this.
  13. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

    20,848
    3,711
    263
    Jul 7, 2010
    My bet is we will still be top 10 team D and now top 5 team O. Good combo for a deep playoff run.
     
    Gobzilla likes this.
  14. Douchebag K

    Douchebag K Well-Known Member

    8,167
    2,366
    248
    Nov 12, 2014
    Marginally a step back. I’m concerned about rebounding from the 4 However I think it’s maybe underestimated how mediocre Ricky’s D was for large stretches of last year so I think we’ll be much better at the point defensively as long as Mudiay doesn’t play much
     
  15. Engorged On Unborn Gore

    Engorged On Unborn Gore Well-Known Member

    1,070
    420
    118
    Oct 3, 2015
    Good analysis, chicaggie. I guess a better indicator would be to examine the defensive efficiency of all the prior players before they played with Rudy (compared with after) and check the new guys after 30, then 50 games.
     
  16. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    10,815
    7,588
    428
    May 27, 2010
    I, too, am concerned about rebounding, as I have been forever, because I've insisted we need a 4 who really rebounds (one reason I hadn't been super high on Harris, despite him rebounding better recently). However, Favors really only played with Gobert for a few minutes, so we haven't been running with a rebounding four really at all (Crowder not much of a rebounder nor Niang). So I believe our rebounding from the four will be a wash. Though not good, I don't think we've lost anything.
     
  17. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

    19,292
    8,916
    393
    Jun 13, 2014
    We will slip a little on defense... but still top 3 or 4. Rebounding may be the biggest issue. We were a very good... I think the best defensive rebounding team iirc... offensive rebounds mean easy second chance points.

    Some of this will be offset by the fact that Mike Conley is so surehanded with the ball and Ricky well... not so much. We will have less live ball turnovers on the pick and roll which will allow less transition opportunities.

    We will make more shots which means the opposing team faces a set defense more... that is no fun for opposing teams.

    I think the swap of Favs for Bojan is enough of a downgrade defensively that we slip a bit. I’m not sure it will be super noticeable because the offense should be soooooooo much better.
     
    JazzAvenues and Ellis269 like this.
  18. ChicAggie

    ChicAggie Member

    58
    73
    18
    Jun 21, 2019
    I considered comparing players' DRtgs in Snyder's system with Rudy and in other systems to see how much, if at all, they benefited, but then decided it would be easier just to draw an unsupported conclusion that these players will play better in Snyder's system with Rudy and that I'd better get back to work instead. :)
     
  19. ChicAggie

    ChicAggie Member

    58
    73
    18
    Jun 21, 2019
    This. ^^^^
     
    Ellis269 likes this.
  20. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    10,815
    7,588
    428
    May 27, 2010
    The swap in defense with Favors is really the swap of Favors for Green, assuming he starts. The bulk of Favors' minutes were at the 5 so it's really Favors at the 5 vs. Ed at the 5, and Green at the 4 vs. Favors at the 4. I think Green wins out because playing next to Gobert, we needed a four who could defend the perimeter, which I think Green will do better than Favors.
     
    campaignist and NAOS like this.

Share This Page