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Donovan Mitchell’s Historic Season

C

Coach Ellis

Well-Known Member
(Posted this in a different thread, and decided that it deserved it’s own thread.)

Donovan Mitchell has 44 games with 20+ points.

39 games of 20-29
5 games of 30-39
2 games of 40-49

Season averages = 20.5 points per game, 3.7 rebounds per game, 3.7 assists per game, 0.4 blocks per game, 1.5 steals per game.

To put it into perspective. . .

• Jason Tatum has 9 - 20+ points games (and no 30+ points games) in 72 starts this year.

• Lauri Markkanen has 10 - 20+ points games (8 games at 20-29, 2 games at 30-39) this year.

• Devin Booker had 16 - 20+ points games (10 games at 20-29, 6 games at 30-39) in 15/16.

• Russell Westbrook had 18 - 20+ points games (12 games at 20-29, 6 games at 30-39 in 65 starts) in 08/09.

• Ben Simmons has 19 - 20+ points games (17 games at 20-29, 2 games at 30-39) this year.

• Chris Paul had 23 - 20+ points games (and no 30+ points games) in 78 starts in 05/06.

• Vince Carter had 23 - 20+ points games (20 games at 20-29, 3 games at 30-39 in 49 starts) in 98/99.

• Kyrie Irving had 26 - 20+ points games (25 games at 20-29, 1 game at 30-39 in 51 starts) in 11/12.

• Steph Curry had 27 - 20+ points games (19 games at 20-29, 7 games at 30-39, 1 game at 40-49 in 77 starts) in 09/10.

• Andrew Wiggins had 31 - 20+ points games (27 games at 20-29, 4 games at 30-39 in 82 starts) in 14/15.

• Derrick Rose had 32 - 20+ points games (and no 30+ points games) in 80 starts in 08/09.

• LeBron James had 40 - 20+ points games (27 games at 20-29, 12 games at 30-39, 1 game at 40-49 in 72 starts) in 03/04.

• Damian Lillard had 41 - 20+ points games (35 games at 20-29, 5 games at 30-39 in 82 starts) in 12/13.

• Kevin Durant had 44 - 20+ points games (37 games at 20-29, 6 games at 30-39, 1 game at 40-49 in 80 starts) in 07/08.

• Larry Bird had 46 - 20+ points games (35 games at 20-29, 9 games at 30-39, 2 games at 40-49 in 82 starts) in 79/80.

• Donovan Mitchell has 45 - 20+ points games (38 games at 20-29, 5 games at 30-39, 2 games at 40-49 in 65 starts) this year.

• Allen Iverson had 48 - 20+ points games (28 games at 20-29, 15 games at 30-39, 4 games at 40-49, 1 game at 50-59 in 74 starts) in 96/97.

• Carmelo Anthony had 49 - 20+ points games (39 games at 20-29, 9 games at 30-39, 1 game at 40-49 in 82 starts) in 03/04.

• Blake Griffin had 55 - 20+ points games (41 games at 20-29, 12 games at 30-39, 2 games at 40-49 in 82 starts) in 10/11.

• Michael Jordan had 73 - 20+ points games (40 games at 20-29, 26 games at 30-39, 7 games at 40-49 in 82 starts) in 84/85.

Oh. . . and I almost forgot. . .

• Gordon Hayward had 45 - 20+ points games (41 games at 20-29, 4 games at 30-39) in his first four seasons in Utah!
 
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Plus, he won the Slam Dunk contest AND he will likely make the most 3 pointers by a Rookie all time - edging out Curry and Lillard.

Also, likely to be one of VERY few rookies in history to lead his team to the playoffs while leading his team in scoring. There’s a number of metrics that include hall of famers and Donovan. Big thanks to the Nuggets for their generosity.
 
Do you think many 76er fans would give Donovan the nod over Simmons and vice versa for rookie of the year?
I think it's almost impossible to separate them.
The scoring of Donovan is super impressive as are his 4th quarter surges and the reality that he is the scoring leader on the team.

But there is a lot to be said about the way Simmons is running their team. He is initiating offense from under his own defensive ring. Without taking shots he is dominating - and seemingly getting better. He also is a monster defensively. He is breaking records ... I don't think the narrative that Simmons relies on Embiid is really as true as it may have been. Simmons is more reliant upon floor spacers than Embiid imo opinion (Cov, Saric etc).

Both seem to deserve ROTY as much (if not more than) as any winner from recent memory
 
Et tu Brute said:
Do you think many 76er fans would give Donovan the nod over Simmons and vice versa for rookie of the year?
I think it's almost impossible to separate them.
The scoring of Donovan is super impressive as are his 4th quarter surges and the reality that he is the scoring leader on the team.

But there is a lot to be said about the way Simmons is running their team. He is initiating offense from under his own defensive ring. Without taking shots he is dominating - and seemingly getting better. He also is a monster defensively. He is breaking records ... I don't think the narrative that Simmons relies on Embiid is really as true as it may have been. Simmons is more reliant upon floor spacers than Embiid imo opinion (Cov, Saric etc).

Both seem to deserve ROTY as much (if not more than) as any winner from recent memory
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I think they are both deserving and extremely talented rookies. But Mitchell is literally carrying a team offensively to the playoffs. Something unheard of as a rookie. Gobert obviously is a huge help to the team defensively but Mitchell has filled in the shoes for a good All-star level player and we have not missed a beat losing Hayward.

There are things Simmons does better than Mitchell. He is a better passer and rebounder. Although as I have shown his rebound numbers are a pretty empty stat since 90% of them are uncontested rebounds and honestly in the clutch I would trust Mitchell to go snatch a defensive rebound if we really needed it more since I think he has more fight and passion in him. Simmons also has elite size for his position which helps a lot.

Simmons is a great player who puts up good stats and helps his team win as the clear second fiddle to their best player on both ends of the court Embiid.

Then the biggest difference is that Mitchell is a whole different monster in the fourth and in the clutch. He is a much better player then and Simmons gets worse in those situations like most rookies.

In the clutch Mitchell is averaging the 8th most Points in that situation just behind Curry and Westbrook and just ahead of Durant, Davis and Oladipo. Simmons is 83rd just behind JJ Reddick and just ahead of Olynyk and Ilyasova. Oh and they both put up the same Assists in the clutch as each other so he has no advantage there.

In the 4th Mitchell averages 6.5 points 1 assist and 1 rebound.

Simmons averages 1.9 rebounds and 1.6 assists. Oh, he also shoots his worse percentage from FTs in the fourth at an abysmal 55% and that gets even worse when the game is tied and he shoots 42% from the FT line while Mitchell Shoots 82%.

These stat comparisons arent meant to bag on Simmons just to point out how elite and rare what Mitchell is doing is. Rookies dont do what he does even 2nd year guys pretending to be rookies.

There are things elite and rare that Simmons is doing as well such as his assist numbers. But most of his rare stats are around his triple doubles and things of that nature that are neat but less meaningful except his passing.

I am curious to see where Simmons goes this post season and next season. He is obviously a talent but his game has such giant holes in it. He cant shoot a FT or shoot a jump shot which isnt as big of deal in the regular season but when defense and scouting steps up it will become an issue. Teams will send him to the FT line more and more and leave him wide open from outside. I am not sure you can play Simmons in a close playoff game in the 4th or OT. If he has a great work ethic and works hard to improve then I think he will become a great player. If he doesnt then I think his career will stay pretty idle or decline. He might have to switch to PF and switch up his game as well. If this season is an indication it does not show me things are going to get better for him since he has declined this year. But ill hold out until I see him next year with an off season to try and improve. So far the closest player to him in NBA history is MCW.

As someone who has followed Simmons his whole career and watches him pretty carefully how do you think he teammates feel about him? Do you think they like him as much as Mitchell's teammates like him?
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Simmons is their point guard and will remain so.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I mean 76ers have to see if Fultz is even an NBA player before worrying about his position and if he will take over for their elite current PG.

I think the question should be more along the lines of: If Fultz lives up to his hype and potential in the future what position will he and Simmons play when they are on the court together.

But even then I assume they can co exist just fine in the back court if Fultz becomes a good shooter. There is also a chance Simmons becomes more of a point forward in the future if he doesnt improve his shooting. But hopefully he becomes a remotely adequate shooter if he has any kind of work ethic.
 
David Stern said:
I will be shocked if Donovan doesn't have that record by the end of the season.
Click to expand...
Not really a record, as much as it’s a comparison to other prolific scorers. 8 games left. I’m hoping he tops Durant and pushes Bird. Still hoping for another 40 or 50+ game before the end of the year.
 
I hope we win some blowouts so Mitchell can get a little rest before the playoffs. Yeah it's nice to see him rack up stats. I'd rather see us get out of the first round and it will take donovan at full strength to do that.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I hope we win some blowouts so Mitchell can get a little rest before the playoffs. Yeah it's nice to see him rack up stats. I'd rather see us get out of the first round and it will take donovan at full strength to do that.
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I could live with that. Jazz are a dark horse contender right now imo. Two star players, solid players filling out the 3-8 spots in the lineup, a great coach, elite defense, solid shooting (most of the time) and a great home arena experience gives the Jazz a real shot to make some noise.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I think they are both deserving and extremely talented rookies. But Mitchell is literally carrying a team offensively to the playoffs. Something unheard of as a rookie. Gobert obviously is a huge help to the team defensively but Mitchell has filled in the shoes for a good All-star level player and we have not missed a beat losing Hayward.

There are things Simmons does better than Mitchell. He is a better passer and rebounder. Although as I have shown his rebound numbers are a pretty empty stat since 90% of them are uncontested rebounds and honestly in the clutch I would trust Mitchell to go snatch a defensive rebound if we really needed it more since I think he has more fight and passion in him. Simmons also has elite size for his position which helps a lot.

Simmons is a great player who puts up good stats and helps his team win as the clear second fiddle to their best player on both ends of the court Embiid.

Then the biggest difference is that Mitchell is a whole different monster in the fourth and in the clutch. He is a much better player then and Simmons gets worse in those situations like most rookies.

In the clutch Mitchell is averaging the 8th most Points in that situation just behind Curry and Westbrook and just ahead of Durant, Davis and Oladipo. Simmons is 83rd just behind JJ Reddick and just ahead of Olynyk and Ilyasova. Oh and they both put up the same Assists in the clutch as each other so he has no advantage there.

In the 4th Mitchell averages 6.5 points 1 assist and 1 rebound.

Simmons averages 1.9 rebounds and 1.6 assists. Oh, he also shoots his worse percentage from FTs in the fourth at an abysmal 55% and that gets even worse when the game is tied and he shoots 42% from the FT line while Mitchell Shoots 82%.

These stat comparisons arent meant to bag on Simmons just to point out how elite and rare what Mitchell is doing is. Rookies dont do what he does even 2nd year guys pretending to be rookies.

There are things elite and rare that Simmons is doing as well such as his assist numbers. But most of his rare stats are around his triple doubles and things of that nature that are neat but less meaningful except his passing.

I am curious to see where Simmons goes this post season and next season. He is obviously a talent but his game has such giant holes in it. He cant shoot a FT or shoot a jump shot which isnt as big of deal in the regular season but when defense and scouting steps up it will become an issue. Teams will send him to the FT line more and more and leave him wide open from outside. I am not sure you can play Simmons in a close playoff game in the 4th or OT. If he has a great work ethic and works hard to improve then I think he will become a great player. If he doesnt then I think his career will stay pretty idle or decline. He might have to switch to PF and switch up his game as well. If this season is an indication it does not show me things are going to get better for him since he has declined this year. But ill hold out until I see him next year with an off season to try and improve. So far the closest player to him in NBA history is MCW.

As someone who has followed Simmons his whole career and watches him pretty carefully how do you think he teammates feel about him? Do you think they like him as much as Mitchell's teammates like him?
Click to expand...


I think there is one slight myth about Simmons though. He does have a jumper and he has hit it a number of times this year. He believes that it is not an efficient enough play yet to justify him not driving and dishing. To make further steps he will need it. And I agree if he can't take some more shots in the playoffs that might become a big problem. But tbh, that will only become a problem if guys around him go ice cold. Which I think they could on a given night.

As for his teammates - from a basketball standpoint they must absolutely love the guy. I mean who wouldn't love a guy that puts up double digit assists and first, second and third thoughts are about getting them involved. From that perspective they would 'love' him a lot. '

From a personable perspective, it's hard to imagine them warming to him as much as the Jazz players do to Mitchell. Mitchell seems to really care about his teammates etc and it isn't just all about winning. Simmons strikes me as a kind of player who suffers no fools. It's all about the prize - not so much the journey... but that might be unfair to him. Simmons doesn't really strike me as being one of the boys - but rather a bit aloof. His personality does seem to contrast rather glaringly with Embiid (and a guy like Mitchell tbh).

I think it is hard to knock Simmons too much on anything atm. People say, the guy hasn't hit a three and doesn't have a jumper. Well at this stage it hardly matters - but it very well might in a couple of weeks. Think the jury needs to hold out a little.

One narrative that has probably got to stop is the idea that Donovan should win ROTY (not that it matters I get it) cause he is 'leading' his team into the playoffs. Another 'offense only' based assessment. Gobert and Embiid are both clearly the best players on their teams atm. Most standard and advanced metrics back this up. In fact, the gap between Gobert and Mitchell is larger than Embiid to Simmons. And further food for thought - both players by way of RPM are the THIRD best players on their teams. Ingles and Cov their teams' second best players. (But Ingles ranks lower than Simmons).

The big difference though is that Gobert according to some advanced stats is still a bit of an offensive hole. Unlike Embiid for the 76ers... This may make it more impressive that Mitchell is able to carry the team offensively the way he does.

One other thing, I find it hard to say a guy only has impressive assist numbers. For a guy who clearly doesn't look for his own shot much, he still averages 16 per at a clip of 53%. It's not like he is Lonzo.

ROTY is a tie...
 
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