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Energy Independence a Reality?

candrew

Well-Known Member
Interesting article which predicts a major power shift in the Energy Markets in the next 5 years due to new technologies for extracting oil and natural gas.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/power-shift-energy-boom-dawning-america-1C8830306?ocid=msnhp&pos=1

As a result, U.S. oil and gas production is growing so rapidly - and demand dropping so quickly - that in just five years the U.S. may no longer need to import oil from any source but Canada, according to Citigroup. And the International Energy Agency projects the U.S. could leapfrog Saudi Arabia and Russia to become the world’s biggest oil producer by 2020. IEA sees the U.S. becoming a net oil exporter by 2030.

The last two economic booms in the US (mid 80's and late 90's) have come in conjuction significant drops in oil/gas prices. This may end up being the real "stimulas bill" that we were looking for.
 
I hope it is a reality. I also liked that the President is setting up a fund for research into getting cars off oil. Our trucking fleet should have been on CNG years ago.
 
Interesting article which predicts a major power shift in the Energy Markets in the next 5 years due to new technologies for extracting oil and natural gas.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/power-shift-energy-boom-dawning-america-1C8830306?ocid=msnhp&pos=1



The last two economic booms in the US (mid 80's and late 90's) have come in conjuction significant drops in oil/gas prices. This may end up being the real "stimulas bill" that we were looking for.

Good find, good thread.

I know it might be news to most Americans, but the things we're generally told on "the news" just isn't factual.

For example, in the Clinton years, good ol' Bill and Hillary took a vacation to Jackson Hole, Wyo., and lived for two weeks on a ranch owned by the Rockefellers. The news generally doesn't tell ya'll everything. Bill even got his start in politics under the tuttelage of Jay Rockefeller, and was trained on the job, more or less, as Governor of Arkansas. I know it's a big consipracy theory and all, but some Rockefellers have some interest in oil, such as Standard Oil, etc. . . .

In Utah, beginning decades before then, a Dutch energy company was exploring for coal in a little-know but huge. . . .. really huge. . . . high grade coal deposit in Southern Utah, the little province of the SUWA, an ecological/environmental subunit of the Communist Party, USA, a little puppet of the British oligarchy funded largely "anonymously" by community-based little retail tax dodge shops that are found in almost every major city of America, all neatly qualified as private 501 (c) "charities" usually found behind almost all little political "sticks" or "schticks" more accurately described. Enough coal there to power the United States on this resource alone for 500 years.

At that time, in the eighties, I had an ongoing feud with a local mover and shaker douchebag who had a lot of influence with the Utah Democratic Party. I was parrying legally with his top-flight lawyers, and a whole rattlesnake den of local government stooges over stuff like trees and fences. Yes, the tree that houses the Box Elder bugs, that are still there. But I also had a problem on the ranch, some oil company was wanting to drill on my ranch, and he was in the oil business. I needed advice. He was owner of an oil exploration company, and had done the business locally of locating drilling sites for the majors, particularly Chevron.

When I went to him and told him my plight, his demeanor transformed immediately. There was never another squabble over a tree or a fence. He had his huge office walls covered with maps, with all the oil claims located across several Western states, and he proceeded of offer one of the most valueable gifts I've ever had in life, worth ten times everything my own family ever did for me.

I asked him about the Escalante-Grand Staircase thing that was in the news, and he leveled with me: "We can't let them have that coal".

John D. Rockefeller has been quoted.. ... not often, not a lot. . . . explaining the oil business. . . . the problem is not supply but control of the supply.

The reason we go to the Middle East and get oil today is because it is better to be doing that now than two hundred years from now. American resources are more easily controlled. Use the most questionably-controlled resources first.

The reason the Rockefellers have set up all the little environmental feel-good "causes" is to help make sure our resources are better controlled, and their exploitation limited for the present generation or two, while "control" over them is solidified under the wholly-owned subsidiary Management we sometimes jokingly refer to as "our" government.

The fracking thing is a crack in that control system, and it may be necessary to shut it all down on environmental pretexts for another hundred years or so. . . ..

I'm sure the President that campaigned first on change, and secondly on no change, and the politicians nationally of both supposedly "different" parties, will be using every tool available to plug the crack.
 
True dat.....


Lest use all the Middle East oil first..


Then we will be the only super power again!!
 
I've been leading this cart for about three years now. People thought I was crazy for suggesting another decade of cheap(er) gas. It was nice when the IEA caught up.

Along with supply increases there is a lot of demand destruction in the pipeline that I think is being understated. The vast majority of cars will most likely be hybrids in just 5-10 short years. Fuel economy has increased over 15% since 2007. That's huge. Westport Innovations has created a good nat gas engine for big rigs and teamed up with Cummins years ago in a 50:50 JV. It's only a matter of time until these things become feasible on a large scale. They're already used profitably in many transport applications. Railroad efficiencies in fuel oil have skyrocketed, but Birlington Northern isn't stopping there. They recently announced experimentation with natural gas locomotives.
 
The last two economic booms in the US (mid 80's and late 90's) have come in conjuction significant drops in oil/gas prices. This may end up being the real "stimulas bill" that we were looking for.

I don't think it's likely we see another cheap gas era like the 80's, but cheaper is possible. We shouldn't want cheap anyway as it's too cyclical by taking the pressure off innovation and conservation.

Also, our consumption peaked back in 2005 in spite of adding millions more vehicles to our roads. Gas tax revenue has gone down (in addition to not being indexed to cpi) while road pressures have gone up. Gas taxes must increase, and should go up dramatically IMO.
 
I hope it is a reality. I also liked that the President is setting up a fund for research into getting cars off oil. Our trucking fleet should have been on CNG years ago.

Yuck. The largest companies in the world don't need this subsidy. You're giving billionaires free booty.
 
John D. Rockefeller has been quoted.. ... not often, not a lot. . . . explaining the oil business. . . . the problem is not supply but control of the supply.
The reason we go to the Middle East and get oil today is because it is better to be doing that now than two hundred years from now. American resources are more easily controlled. Use the most questionably-controlled resources first.

Hence OPEC.

The Saudi's understand this best, and probably the reason they're an ally. The leadership has said they prefer steady prices as opposed to super high prices that lead to busts. Consistent revenue over bumper crop windfalls followed by drought.
 
Yuck. The largest companies in the world don't need this subsidy. You're giving billionaires free booty.

I'd prefer they do it themselves but will they? The answer is obviously no. Do not give it to those companies or their owners. Do this research thru a university or something and write it up so that it cannot be claimed as a tax write off, subsidy or anything else.
 
I'd prefer they do it themselves but will they?

They already are, as I pointed out above.

Your statement that "Our trucking fleet should have been on CNG years ago "followed up with "but will they?" doesn't make much sense to someone in the business of making money. It makes sense from a national security p.o.v. though.

First thing, natural gas hasn't been in this kind of excess until very recently. Second, the main barrier to CNG fleets is infrastructure and technology. Why in the world would we prefer government to advance that technology for the benefit of wealthy business owners rather than have these business owners make their own investments? Walmart will switch to natural gas rigs (with ease) as soon as it becomes profitable. They don't need any more of our money to make it happen, supposedly for our own good.
 
They already are, as I pointed out above.

Your statement that "Our trucking fleet should have been on CNG years ago "followed up with "but will they?" doesn't make much sense to someone in the business of making money. It makes sense from a national security p.o.v. though.

First thing, natural gas hasn't been in this kind of excess until very recently. Second, the main barrier to CNG fleets is infrastructure and technology. Why in the world would we prefer government to advance that technology for the benefit of wealthy business owners rather than have these business owners make their own investments? Walmart will switch to natural gas rigs (with ease) as soon as it becomes profitable. They don't need any more of our money to make it happen, supposedly for our own good.

It does makes sense for the owner of a trucking fleet. The amount of money they will save from switching to CNG would be huge over time.
 
I'm sure this is just off the wall, but look at the whole world crisis in wallboard. . . . prices bouncing around, off the walls and ceilings. . . .building costs going up like crazy. . . ..

nobody knows where wallboard comes from, it's magic. No press coverage of this crisis at all. . . . . deafening silence.

whole mountains of 100% chemically-pure gypsum deposits with enough gypsum to supply the world's needs practically infinitely. I mean, the sun is going to burn out before we use up all the gypsum .

But just like Robert Redford, who began wanting to protect forests and mountains after he already owned his little mountain and forest, all the commodities today are in the hands of companies who are doing everything to cut off new competitors from being able to enter the market.

Cartelism is the name of the game.

This world has a lot of resources of every kind. . . . even gold.

Gold is a commodity that will experience increases in production as the price goes up. . . . mountains will be turned upside down and leached with cyanide/sodium hydroxide all over the planet.

America has enough energy each from tar sands, oil, gas, and uranium. . . .. and ten times that in coal. oh what to do what to do.. . . I know. . . . lock it all up with environmentalism and shrines to Gaia, and clear the earth of it's human detritis. . . . .

Cartelism, fascism. . . . oh just new words for "feudalism". . . . and for all the human civilizations ever that existed to protect the wealthy few from the masses of "trailer trash"/tented nomads of every age.

Mankinds' quest for freedom has always led away from establishments of government into some wilderness somehow. Now we just need to trim the sails of overblown governance. It does nothing for the ordinary folks, and exists only to protect the titles of the nobility. In name, in law, and in the land.
 
It does makes sense for the owner of a trucking fleet. The amount of money they will save from switching to CNG would be huge over time.

Not yet, especially for small operators. We need multi-decade hedge contracts with the producers (who are flaring a lot of the dry wells off, and Al Gore getting carbon credits for converting nat gas in the ground with a 37 GHG number into CO2 in the air with 1GHG). Each company would also need to install their own refueling station and couldn't transport anything OTR.

California has worked some stuff out with the ports. Garbage and other local utilities will slowly switch over based on the replacement rate. Large companies like Walmart will figure out the infrastructure for their own logistics.
 
This is great news but at the end of the day, oil and gas are still finite resources and we do need to think about the future. As in 100-300 years from now.
 
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No. Us energy independence is a pipe dream. What's stopping these companies from selling their crap overseas? As soon as we're close to energy independence we'll surely just look to sell more of it keeping us addicted to foreign imports (and the wonderfully high prices and the cha ching they'll provide.
 
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