Is it LeBron's Fault?

[gomretat]

In all the articles I have read about Sloan’s retirement, the one I found most fascinating was one that alluded to how LeBron has changed the NBA and the attitudes of star players. His decision to join ranks has a number of players – those who genuinely care about winning a ring – now focused on how to do the same thing. Chris Paul asked out. Melo is controlling the trade talks. Deron has been more outspoken in his criticism of the Jazz FO and Sloan. The Magic take a significant risk to surround Howard with folks that will keep him happy. The stars are now dictating more than ever in an attempt to position to compete for the ultimate prize. Before LeBron, the belief was that self-interest in terms of the biggest contract would usually win out. No longer the case. – even though LeBron will make more because of where he is playing. Players recognize that winning the big one means they have to be willing to give up some coin to compete with Miami.

While it is truly naive to believe that one encounter with Deron caused Jerry to leave, it is easy to see how a star player who is team leader, who would not follow or respond, would wear him down. There can be little doubt that Deron’s 2012 contract expiration is front and center on the minds of the Jazz FO, even more so now that LeBron has set a precedent.

The day LeBron made the decision to join the Heat it was clear to me that this could create a New York Yankee type problem for the NBA where the stars assemble and small market teams are worse off. His decision opens up the possibility of making CBA negotiations much worse as owners fight to have a way to use a franchise tag or something like it so their stars can’t walk. However, I had never thought it would lead to the type of attitudes that would force someone like Sloan to walk. Something worth thinking about.

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

The day LeBron made the decision to join the Heat it was clear to me that this could create a New York Yankee type problem for the NBA where the stars assemble and small market teams are worse off.

Different NBA champs in the last 20 years: 7 teams. (Bulls 6, Lakers 5, Spurs 4, Rockets 2, Celtics 1, Pistons 1, Heat 1)
Different MLB champs in the last 20 years: 13 teams.(Yankees 5, Blue Jays 2, Marlins 2, Red Sox 2, Giants 1, Phillies 1, Cardinals 1, White Sox 1, Angels 1, Diamondbacks 1, Twins 1, Braves 1, Reds 1)

Seems to me the NBA has a bigger problem than baseball.

 

[VINYLONE]

What is the precedent that Lebron set?

 

[Ben10]

I do have to agree with the fact that Lebron joining Bosh and Wade in Miami as changed the way the owners look at keeping there star players. The Lakers have been doing this for years. The Knicks have tried to do it (but Isiah Thomas is a dumb ***) so they could never pull it off.

The truth is the bigger market teams have and well always have an advantage in getting players to come play for them because they are willing up put the money out there to go with the high exposier. So LeBron might not have changed the NBA by his choice (The Lakers pull this all the time) it sure made people and the writers open there eyes to the fact that this could become a major part of were the NBA is headed.

 

[NCJazz]

I do have to agree with the fact that Lebron joining Bosh and Wade in Miami as changed the way the owners look at keeping there star players. The Lakers have been doing this for years. The Knicks have tried to do it (but Isiah Thomas is a dumb ***) so they could never pull it off.

The truth is the bigger market teams have and well always have an advantage in getting players to come play for them because they are willing up put the money out there to go with the high exposier. So LeBron might not have changed the NBA by his choice (The Lakers pull this all the time) it sure made people and the writers open there eyes to the fact that this could become a major part of were the NBA is headed.

We will see what the new CBA says. May make it harder to have another Miami. For instance could there be a franchise tag and a hard salary cap. I think most of the smaller market teams want this. Granted Miami is a smaller market, but choosing between Miami and Milwaukee not to hard.

 

[LogGrad98]

What is the precedent that Lebron set?

I think the precedent is that of players openly colluding to build a "super-team". We know, and I fully support, that players can choose to a point where they play. Teams have options to trade but once the players enter free agency they can decide where they play. That is all just fine. But LBJ set a precedent in openly working with other players to get them where he wanted them to build a team of all-stars to win championships, as opposed to those players deciding where to play based on individual factors. I have no doubt that he worked with the Heat in doing so to get the players he and the other all-stars felt they needed to fill out the team. We can see this in the timing of the signings and the other offers some of these players eschewed.

This is a fundamental paradigm shift in the NBA. Maybe, and I am sure some, players did this in the past, but if so it was behind closed doors. This was an out-in-the-open move that shocked many people, and I am sure sent a message to the owners. In my mind this move made it all the more likely the owners ask for tougher changes to the CBA than they may have otherwise and, albeit not by itself, all but guaranteed a lockout.

 

[GoJazz]

I think it is still about the money. So even though Cavs could have paid Lebron more money in Salary. He felt he would make this differance up 10 fold by being in a large market team like Miami. At the same time he has a much better shot at a ring as well. If I am Lebron this is a win-win. I make more money because I am in a Large Market and I surround myself with the best players. Can you really fault a guy for wanting more money, more exposure, and a better chance at winning it all? Look bottom line is these players have 10-15 years to make as much money as they can. Do you think the NBA gives a **** about them when they retire? I am sorry but what Lebron did was just smart business and lets not forget if you are a player in this league this is a business and not just a game.

To be honest with you. If the Lakers offer Deron Williams a Max Contract to come play with Kobe and Howard he would be an idiot to not take it. Deron could triple his income by being in a large market like LA in just advertising revs.

So from a players standpoint I can't hate guys for wanting to go play in large market. On the other hand, If I am an owner or the NBA (company). I would strongly require some safeguards against this happening otherwise what I feel will happen is the NBA will lose its fan base because the games are not competitive until the playoffs when the large market teams compete. In many respects I have already seen this, just go watch a Raptors, Bobcats, Cavs, Nets, Knicks, or any number of crappy teams play. The stands are empty, and people are generally disinterested. This is why I feel the NBA needs to institute a HARD CAP immedaitely. They need to let teams Franchise a player. The NBA also needs to find additional ways to get exposure for smaller market teams to give the players on those teams more national exposure.

 

[Sneakers]

The question is are all NBA players really just greedy entrepreneur types that are only and primarily interested in where and how they can maximize the amount of money they can make? Because thats just pretty much a given assumption most of the time when discussing players these days.

 

[franklin]

We need a Jazzfanz definitions thread. What is all this collusion talk being thrown around? Colluding my ***. I mean, I just can't believe all these super-lawyer firms chock full of colluding buddies who decided to work together. Or how about super investors like Buffett teaming up with Cummings and Steinberg? Ooh the filth! The racing industry? The best driver, crew, and machinists all together? Putting a good jockey on a great horse? Wow, Nelly! I can't believe people would talk together and try to work something out that is in their best interests.

It's nothing more than small market jealousy. You'll all love it if D-Will is successful in bringing someone here.

 

[mellow]

Another thread talks about this, sorry if I state what someone else has said. But Lebron didn't start the arms race. Look at LA: Kobe, Odom, Gasol. Boston: KG, Allen Pierce. Why is it that Danny Ainge is heralded as imaginitive risk taker and showered with praise for collecting three stars, but when the players do it everyone gets angry?

Don't get me wrong. I hate the current trend of multi-millionaire children running to play with thier friends, but its the leagues fault that they feel the need. The season is too long, the 7 game playoff series leaves little room for chance, or hope for any lucky upset, the playoffs are more or less set by the end of January and we can all more or less tell which 5 or 6 teams are most likely to make it to the conference finals.

That is where the NFL gets it right--any team could win on any given Sunday. There is an element of randomness and luck involved and that keeps it interesting for the fans and the players. Would it hurt the NBA to have a little of the same?

 

[Sub-Odeon]

Different NBA champs in the last 20 years: 7 teams. (Bulls 6, Lakers 5, Spurs 4, Rockets 2, Celtics 1, Pistons 1, Heat 1)
Different MLB champs in the last 20 years: 13 teams.(Yankees 5, Blue Jays 2, Marlins 2, Red Sox 2, Giants 1, Phillies 1, Cardinals 1, White Sox 1, Angels 1, Diamondbacks 1, Twins 1, Braves 1, Reds 1)

Seems to me the NBA has a bigger problem than baseball.

This was a great post IMHO. It highlights just how much disparity there is in the NBA, compared to the MLB, or even the NFL. I would also add that the NBA has the worst officiating -- by far -- among the big sports leagues in the US. In the MLB or the NFL the officials might blow a call once in awhile, but you don't see the gross manipulation that takes place in the NBA, especially where certain markets and certain players are concerned. Small market teams without big name players have to work twice as hard for their records as, say, the Lakers with Bryant and Gasol, and it's a foregone conclusion that those same small market teams have zero chance in the playoffs.

With Sloan out, I am closer than I've ever been in 26 years to quitting the NBA altogether. Between the overpaid crybaby players and the sloppy, manipulative officiating, I am just not sure what's in it for me as a Jazz fan anymore? Last time I felt like seriously quitting was when the Jazz lost the Finals in '98, and now I'm more or less back to feeling the same way: as if the entire enterprise is a futile waste of time.

 

[northeast]

Just make the refs call the games totally fair without absolutely no consideration for the player's status.

 

[Sub-Odeon]

Don't get me wrong. I hate the current trend of multi-millionaire children running to play with thier friends, but its the leagues fault that they feel the need. The season is too long, the 7 game playoff series leaves little room for chance, or hope for any lucky upset, the playoffs are more or less set by the end of January and we can all more or less tell which 5 or 6 teams are most likely to make it to the conference finals.

That is where the NFL gets it right--any team could win on any given Sunday. There is an element of randomness and luck involved and that keeps it interesting for the fans and the players. Would it hurt the NBA to have a little of the same?

+1

Frankly, I think they should cut the games back to twice a week, no more and no less.

More time for practices and for people to heal up after injuries.

50 game season, with the playoffs beginning in early April.

Also, cut the playoffs from 7-game series down to the following:

Round 1 = 3 games
Semis = 5 games
Conf. finals = 5 games
League finals = 7 games

Add in some wildcard options for the one or two teams in each conference that get hot later in the season. Give everyone a reason to keep playing well and keep playing hard until the finish. The current setup makes the playoffs entirely too predictable as it is: you know who the seeds will be and you know pretty much who is going to the conference finals before the season is even finished. That makes for some dang boring basketball.

 

[NCJazz]

I think it is still about the money. So even though Cavs could have paid Lebron more money in Salary. He felt he would make this differance up 10 fold by being in a large market team like Miami. At the same time he has a much better shot at a ring as well. If I am Lebron this is a win-win. I make more money because I am in a Large Market and I surround myself with the best players. Can you really fault a guy for wanting more money, more exposure, and a better chance at winning it all? Look bottom line is these players have 10-15 years to make as much money as they can. Do you think the NBA gives a **** about them when they retire? I am sorry but what Lebron did was just smart business and lets not forget if you are a player in this league this is a business and not just a game.

To be honest with you. If the Lakers offer Deron Williams a Max Contract to come play with Kobe and Howard he would be an idiot to not take it. Deron could triple his income by being in a large market like LA in just advertising revs.

So from a players standpoint I can't hate guys for wanting to go play in large market. On the other hand, If I am an owner or the NBA (company). I would strongly require some safeguards against this happening otherwise what I feel will happen is the NBA will lose its fan base because the games are not competitive until the playoffs when the large market teams compete. In many respects I have already seen this, just go watch a Raptors, Bobcats, Cavs, Nets, Knicks, or any number of crappy teams play. The stands are empty, and people are generally disinterested. This is why I feel the NBA needs to institute a HARD CAP immedaitely. They need to let teams Franchise a player. The NBA also needs to find additional ways to get exposure for smaller market teams to give the players on those teams more national exposure.

Miami is not a large market team. Their drawing power is location and no state income taxes. Being in South Beach and not paying taxes often beats out the high taxes and mass of humanity like NY.

 

[honz]

Lebron didn't change the NBA. Free agency changed the NBA and Lebron simply did the best job choosing a new team that we have ever seen, and now everyone is jealous of him and the Heat.

 

[franklin]

This was a great post IMHO. It highlights just how much disparity there is in the NBA, compared to the MLB, or even the NFL. I would also add that the NBA has the worst officiating -- by far -- among the big sports leagues in the US. In the MLB or the NFL the officials might blow a call once in awhile, but you don't see the gross manipulation that takes place in the NBA, especially where certain markets and certain players are concerned. Small market teams without big name players have to work twice as hard for their records as, say, the Lakers with Bryant and Gasol, and it's a foregone conclusion that those same small market teams have zero chance in the playoffs.

With Sloan out, I am closer than I've ever been in 26 years to quitting the NBA altogether. Between the overpaid crybaby players and the sloppy, manipulative officiating, I am just not sure what's in it for me as a Jazz fan anymore? Last time I felt like seriously quitting was when the Jazz lost the Finals in '98, and now I'm more or less back to feeling the same way: as if the entire enterprise is a futile waste of time.

Every time I start believing in the NBA refereeing I see a big game like yesterday's Celtics-Heat match-up. There was a section in the 4th quarter where the refs blew 3-4 whistles in a row on the Celtics and all were questionable calls at best. It felt like the refs were either guaranteeing a close game or were making sure Miami didn't lose their 3rd in a row to the Celts.

 

[honz]

Basketball will always be more predictable than football or baseball, because there is not all that much luck involved in basketball. Skill usually wins out. In baseball, however, you can hit a rocket into the outfield, but if you hit it to the wrong spot it is simply another out. Also, in both football and baseball, a single play can totally change a game where that is pretty much impossible to do in basketball. A pick 6 in football can be the difference between winning and losing where a single turnover over the course of the basketball game has little effect on the final outcome. The same applies to a HR or Grand Slam in baseball. Basketball has always been the most predictable sport, which is why many like it and also many don't for that very reason.

 

[northeast]

The refs win out.

The champion would have been a different team at least half of the years since I've been watching if the games were called totally even, maybe more.

 

[gomretat]

Another thread talks about this, sorry if I state what someone else has said. But Lebron didn't start the arms race. Look at LA: Kobe, Odom, Gasol. Boston: KG, Allen Pierce. Why is it that Danny Ainge is heralded as imaginitive risk taker and showered with praise for collecting three stars, but when the players do it everyone gets angry?

What LeBron did is unprecedented. That is why it is the first time you have seen former stars like MJ, Charles, and Magic react in a public way. Obviously everyone is trying to improve and get the best players. But a player in their prime who is a top 5 talent taking a pay cut to play with other young stars has not happened before. This was not a trade like LA and Boston pulled off, it was elite players taking a pay cut to play together while still in their prime and doing so as a free agent.

It opens up all kinds of issues around the team ending up as 6-8 super teams with everyone else eating dust. We can pretend like it is business as usual but that is putting our heads in the sand. Granted, any number of teams would have loved to have been the first to pull it off but Miami did it. That is not the debate. The question is, what impact is that having on D-Will and the future of the Jazz?

 

[JimLes]

This is not simply about bigger markets vs. smaller markets, and this is not simply business as usual.

What we are seeing as the final stages in development of free agency. Yes, free agency has been around for a few decades, and yes there are still rules in place that make it more complicated, but free agency has never been utilized by the players to its full potential.

Look at it this way. Take the entire decade of the 90s, and look at how many stars in their prime left their teams due to free agency. Shaq? Juwan Howard tried, but that didn't work out. Allan Houston? Free agency used to not happen, simply because things would've been worked out otherwise before it came down to that. Barkley wanted to leave Philly, and he had two years left on his contract. He asked for a trade, and it happened. Kareem asked for a trade in the late 70s, as did many other great players. They weren't happy, they wanted to play elsewhere, so they asked for a trade.

What made last summer different is that LeBron and Bosh had planned to bolt for a couple of years, but they never told anyone. As a matter of fact, they gave reassuring statements to the contrary. This is why their exits were so devastating to the two teams. If Cleveland had traded LeBron two years ago, I assure you they wouldn't have lost 26 straight this year. By this point, they might have managed to put a decent team together.

My fear, and the fear of many people connected with basketball, is that the players will try to collude with one another, completely bypassing regular way the league works. Oh sure, if you're an agsty 15-year old working at McDonald's, you might be aroused by the idea of your favourite basketball players sticking it to the Man like that, but it's bad for the future of the league. How can teams do business with this kind of duplicity around? What the hell are we supposed to do with Deron right now? He hasn't signed an extension, but he hasn't said he wants to leave. Basically, he's asking everyone to trust him. If he stays, perhaps it will have been worth it. If he bolts, though, won't we all regret not trading him right now? But how can you know though, when he's not being up front about it?

If more players pull this sort of stuff, or even demand trades simply because they figure that at 26, someone owes them a championship, it's bad news for most of the league. Of course, people will say that in the 80s, a few teams dominated the league. Between 1980 and 1989 only 5 teams even made it to the finals, and the Lakers and the Celtics were far ahead of the other 3, as well. 2 teams basically owned that whole decade. Sure that's bad, but paradoxically, it's not as bad as 4-5 teams dominating an entire decade.

For all the dominance of those two teams in the 80s, there was no possible way for them to accumulate all the league's stars. Smaller markets and less-succesful teams were able to keep their stars. We had Dantley, and we had Stock and Malone later in the decade. Nuggets fans had Alex English and Fat Lever(both terribly underrated). You had Gervin, Bernard King, Sidney Moncrief, Clyde, Dominique, Tom Chambers, etc. You had All-NBA first and second team players playing on teams that did not play in the finals, on teams located in small markets, on losing teams...

We are looking at the possibility of a league right now were the 15 players on All-NBA teams are all playing for 4-5 teams. That's scary. That's scary for the other 25 teams and the other 25 owners. I don't care how many jerseys LeBron and Wade sell or how many people tune into Heat games on ESPN, the majority of the NBA team's budget does not come for TV rights and revenue sharing. It comes from selling 19,000 tickets to every home game, not just the ones when Superfriends come to town. And in all honesty, if the Jazz had the team we had in 03/04 for a decade, how many people would still come to games?