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Mo-Foye-Al v. Burks-Carroll-Kanter

GVC

GVC

Well-Known Member
More fun with NBA.com's new stats.



Among Jazz regulars (that is, players not named Raja, Murphy or Jeremy), the top 3 in +/- per48 are Carroll, Kanter and Burks. The bottom 3 are Mo, Al and Foye. Their respective +/- performance is:

Carroll: +5.7 per48
Kanter: +5.2 per48
Burks: +4.6 per48

Mo: -5.5 per48
Al: -4.2 per48
Foye: -4.0 per48



Both the Mo-Foye-Al and Burks-Carroll-Kanter combos are among the Jazz's 50 most used 3 man lineups. Their respective +/- performance (with ranking among the 50 most used 3 man lineups) is:

Mo-Foye-Al: -10.2 per48 (571 minutes), 48th of 50

Burks-Carroll-Kanter: +16.9 per48 (218 minutes), 2nd of 50



Since Mo's return (the last 10 games), this trend has continued for the most part (Carroll's individual stats and +/- have been terrible). Further, the combined individual stats of Burks, Carroll and Kanter have been impressive compared to those of Mo, Foye and Al. Al has been inactive for only one of these games, while the other 5 have been available for all ten games. The combined minutes of the two groups over these games are:

Mo-Foye-Al: 817:40 (293:58 for Mo, 233:25 for Foye, 290:17 for Al)

Burks-Carroll-Kanter: 429:11 (177:37 for Burks, 81:49 for Carroll, 169:45 for Kanter)

Note: Mo Foye and Al have combined to play 90.5% more minutes than Burks, Carroll and Kanter (combined).



Following are the per36 stats for the individuals and combos (Mo-Foye-Al, Burks-Carroll-Kanter) over the last 10 games (again, since Mo's return):

Mo

12.5 points
3.4 rebounds (0.4-3.1-3.4)
6.7 assists
1.2 steals
0.2 blocks
3.4 TO
3.1 PF
.385 FG
.417 3PT
.667 FT (1.5 FTA per36, 9.1 FGA/FTA)
.446 TS
-7.2 +/- (per36)


Foye

9.7 points
2.2 rebounds (0.3-1.9-2.2)
2.5 assists
0.9 steals
0.5 blocks
1.1 TO
3.4 PF
.324 FG
.364 3PT
.750 FT (0.6 FTA per36, 17.0 FGA/FTA)
.452 TS
-10.8 +/- (per36)


Al

16.0 points
8.7 rebounds (2.0-6.7-8.7)
2.4 assists
0.9 steals
1.0 blocks
1.9 TO
2.4 PF
.434 FG
.000 3PT
.611 FT (2.2 FTA per36, 7.6 FGA/FTA)
.448 TS
-10.7 +/- (per36)


Mo-Foye-Al (per36 per player)

12.9 points
4.9 rebounds (0.9-4.0-4.9)
4.0 assists
1.0 steals
0.6 blocks
2.2 TO
2.9 PF
.393 FG
.377 3PT
.647 FT (1.5 FTA per36, 9.2 FGA/FTA)
.448 TS
-9.5 +/- (per36)


Burks

17.8 points
3.9 rebounds (1.0-2.8-3.9)
3.2 assists
1.0 steals
0.0 blocks
2.0 TO
3.9 PF
.440 FG
.429 3PT
.929 FT (2.8 FTA per36, 5.4 FGA/FTA)
.542 TS
+0.6 +/- (per36)


Carroll

7.9 points
4.0 rebounds (2.6-1.3-4.0)
1.8 assists
0.9 steals
1.3 blocks
2.2 TO
7.9 PF
.304 FG
.143 3PT
1.00 FT (1.3 FTA per36, 7.7 FGA/FTA)
.370 TS
-11.0 +/- (per36)


Kanter

20.6 points
8.5 rebounds (3.4-5.1-8.5)
1.1 assists
0.8 steals
0.4 blocks
2.8 TO
2.8 PF
.578 FG
1.00 3PT
.846 FT (5.5 FTA per36, 2.5 FGA/FTA)
.643 TS
+5.5 +/- (per36)


Burks-Carroll-Kanter (per36 per player)

17.0 points
5.7 rebounds (2.3-3.4-5.7)
2.1 assists
0.9 steals
0.4 blocks
2.3 TO
4.2 PF
.475 FG
.379 3PT
.884 FT (3.6 FTA per36, 3.8 FGA/FTA)
.561 TS
+0.3 +/- (per36)
 
From the stats:


Kanter
16:59 per game
.643 TS
2.5 FGA/FTA
+7.4 +/- per48

v.

Al
32:15 per game
.448 TS
7.6 FGA/FTA
-14.2 +/- per48


Keep in mind, the Charlotte game is not included in these stats.
 
Last edited:
Not surprising, but thanks for the empirical stuffage.

I made up a very bad joke today.. wanna hear it? Here it is anyway..

Why is Corbin such a bad coach?






He has AL'sheimers.


heh
 
It's probably also worth isolating the combined stats:


Mo-Foye-Al (per36 per player)
12.9 points
4.9 rebounds (0.9-4.0-4.9)
4.0 assists
1.0 steals
0.6 blocks
2.2 TO
2.9 PF
.393 FG
.377 3PT
.647 FT (1.5 FTA per36, 9.2 FGA/FTA)
.448 TS
-9.5 +/- (per36)

v.

Burks-Carroll-Kanter (per36 per player)
17.0 points
5.7 rebounds (2.3-3.4-5.7)
2.1 assists
0.9 steals
0.4 blocks
2.3 TO
4.2 PF
.475 FG
.379 3PT
.884 FT (3.6 FTA per36, 3.8 FGA/FTA)
.561 TS
+0.3 +/- (per36)
 
GVC said:
Do you like chocolate?
Click to expand...

cute.

Kanter's opponents have an average PER of 12. Jefferson's are an average of 17.7.

The fact that this trio has played 90% more minutes than the bench unit tells me they are going up against better players more often.

As we all know, we have a below average starting 5, and an above average bench.

Switching the two does not give us an above average starting 5.
 
LunaticWolf said:
cute.

Kanter's opponents have an average PER of 12. Jefferson's are an average of 17.7.

The fact that this trio has played 90% more minutes than the bench unit tells me they are going up against better players more often.

As we all know, we have a below average starting 5, and an above average bench.

Switching the two does not give us an above average starting 5.
Click to expand...
Partially true. But we have an absolutely worthless and pathetic starting 5 and a top in the league bench. Switching them at this point does nothing except prove to people like you how moronic our coach has really been this season. Which is why our coach won't do it. Not even when we are officially eliminated from the playoffs will he do it. Nothing like proving to your bosses how absolutely pathetic of a job you really did this year.
 
LunaticWolf said:
cute.

Kanter's opponents have an average PER of 12. Jefferson's are an average of 17.7.

The fact that this trio has played 90% more minutes than the bench unit tells me they are going up against better players more often.

As we all know, we have a below average starting 5, and an above average bench.

Switching the two does not give us an above average starting 5.
Click to expand...

I am starting to think You might actually be David Locke.
 
gregbroncs said:
Partially true. But we have an absolutely worthless and pathetic starting 5 and a top in the league bench. Switching them at this point does nothing except prove to people like you how moronic our coach has really been this season. Which is why our coach won't do it. Not even when we are officially eliminated from the playoffs will he do it. Nothing like proving to your bosses how absolutely pathetic of a job you really did this year.
Click to expand...

Does he need to prove it? It's so blatantly obvious that you have to be related to Corbin to believe otherwise.
 
LunaticWolf said:
cute.
Click to expand...
Figured I'd give you a break from dodging questions.

LunaticWolf said:
Kanter's opponents have an average PER of 12. Jefferson's are an average of 17.7.
Click to expand...
And? Are you claiming that that explains 100% of the difference in recent performance? Might Jefferson's opponents do so well (and Kanter's so poorly) at least in part because one is a sieve and the other an above average defender? Since PER is almost entirely an offensive stat (a virtually worthless one at that), what does this have to do with Jefferson's poor showings of late?

LunaticWolf said:
The fact that this trio has played 90% more minutes than the bench unit tells me they are going up against better players more often.
Click to expand...
1. No doubt. What percentage of the difference in performance do you think is explained by this?

2. How much better do you think Mo-Foye-Al are than Burks-Carroll-Kanter?

3. Given their production and effort, do you think Al should get nearly twice as many minutes as Kanter? Could the team do any worse by trying something else?

LunaticWolf said:
Switching the two does not give us an above average starting 5.
Click to expand...
Who said it would? How well do you think Ty's done this year allocating minutes given the team's (stated) goals?
 
good work some evidence to show what everyone is seeing on the floor
 
Last edited:
Eenie-Meenie said:
Does he need to prove it? It's so blatantly obvious that you have to be related to Corbin to believe otherwise.
Click to expand...
While very true. Playing the young guys now and watching them succeed could potentially end Corbin's head coaching career. Maybe for good. Right now I think he still hopes to last one more season.
 
In response to LunaticEstablishmentarianbeyondreason:

If the roles were reversed and the current vet starters were made bench players, do you think that they'd perform as good or better as our bench has been? How stark does the contrast have to be for you to do anything but naysay to raw facts? A 40-point swing? More?
 
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