Raise Taxes and Reduce Spending

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GoJazz, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. GoJazz

    GoJazz Active Member

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    So I have been listening to the news lately and I have to say that I don't agree with EITHER party. The hole discussion is should we reduce spending OR raise taxes. Currently government spends 22% of GDP and only taxes 17% of GDP. I definitely think we could reduce spending significantly but could we really reduce spending by 5% of GDP? That is 750 Billion Dollars. I seriously doubt it without a major overhaul of the entire system which isn't going to happen. So I think my solution is the most sensible.

    Increase Taxes and pass a law that states any increase of taxes will go directly to reduce the deficit and budget deficiency. Also pass the law that unless the the congress and senate give the president a balanced budget to work from that they will all be unable to run for re-election the following election cycle.
     
  2. Jazz Spazz

    Jazz Spazz Inconceivable Staff Member

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    Get rid of the Federal Reserve, and print out own money.
     
  3. Stoked

    Stoked Modstapo Staff Member

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    They already have plenty of money to do what they need to do. They just keep spending it on stupid **** and not what is really important.
     
  4. Gameface

    Gameface Fire Controlman

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    I think we're in a position right now where taxes need to be raised. I'm also fine throwing a bone to Dems and raising the top rate the most, but not by a huge amount. Give the Dems that much and you have leverage to reduce spending in meaningful ways.
     
  5. leftyjace

    leftyjace Well-Known Member

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    This thread should be titled "Let's Jump Off the Fiscal Cliff." Cuz that's exactly what the legislation would mandate - reduced spending across the board, and increased taxes. Everywhere.
     
  6. infection

    infection Well-Known Member

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    While the bold is neat in theory, what really happens is that with the new money for the deficit they can then take the other money that would have been spent on the deficit and divert it to some other kind of spending. A lot like when they told everyone in Missouri to vote for casinos because they'd use all that money to education. Well, they did. The problem was they took all the other funds that were at that point funding education and spent it on whatever the hell else they spent it on.

    Also, what this is really saying is that we as citizens need to provide our government a bailout.
     
  7. Gas

    Gas Well-Known Member

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    Print our own money. The world has to pay for us having to babysit their dumb asses
     
  8. Jazz Spazz

    Jazz Spazz Inconceivable Staff Member

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    If we dump the federal reserve and print our own money we will get ourselves out of debt and be a free and unburdened country faster than anything else. The only problem is the secret people running the Federal Reserve (some think it is the royal family of England) would get angry and do whatever they could to get rid of anyone that tries it.

    Andrew Jackson shut down the Second Bank of the United states, the equivalent of the Federal Reserve in those days. He was fought on this on all sides but he was able to shut it down by vetoing the recharter as it was only chartered for 20 years. (Incidentally so is the current Fed, but it seems to live on without a recharter I believe) After this he was able to completely remove the national debt, and that was the only time it has happened. He once said to Van Buren "The Bank is trying to kill me, but I will kill it" After the recharter was vetoed, there was an assassination attempt on him, but both guns misfired. Afterwards both guns were tested and they worked fine.

    Lincoln went to the bank to get some money to help fund the Civil War, and the banks wanted to charge him 24-28%. He wouldn't do it, so he worked with Congress to print the Greenbacks and fund the war themselves. They didn't like that and tried to get involved and split the country. France and England tried to side with the south despite the slavery issue, but at the time the war was not a moral war, but about keeping the union intact. After Lincoln saw those controlling the banks pushing England and France to help in the war, and knowing their people would not support the war if it was about slaver, delivered the Emancipation Proclamation. He also had backing from Russia who sent some of their fleet to both the West Coast and the East coast. Some think it was a show of support to the North, but there was selfishness involved there. They were headed to war with them, and wanted their fleet free of ice in their own ports, but a unified US was a buffer from the European countries that were controlling the money through the banks. Once the US was divided up, Russia would have been the next target as they would not allow the banks to control their currency. "luckily" for the banks the whole Russian royal family was killed around WWI so they eventually got what they wanted. Strangely the communist revolution was funded with European money. Anywho, with France and England now unable to get involved on the slavery side of the now moral war on slavery, they stayed out and the North ended up winning the war and keeping the United states... united. Towards the end of the war Lincoln could not get the support of Congress for the printing of more money to finish the war, so he accepted the banks push for the National Bank Act, but planned on fighting it and repealing it after his reelection. 45 days after reelection, he was killed, and the National Bank Act lived on, and so did the Banks with funding from European puppet masters.

    After the Civil War, and Lincoln's death the country went to the Gold Standard, which was easy to control because of the scarcity of Gold at the time. The banks (JP Morgan was a main one) caused depressions by removing money from circulation slowly. They created the crash in 1907 and then offered to save the day by bringing in some money that they printed.

    President Garfield said in 1881 "Whosoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce... And when you realise that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate." Within weeks of this statement he was assassinated.

    JFK had Congress printing money and was to abolish the Federal Reserve. JFK was assassinated.

    In response to Lincoln printing greenbacks:
    There's a ton of info out there about the Banks and the Fed, and all that. Basically they own whoever they want to, and if they can't own them they will discredit them or kill them. They own the media, oil, railroads, and probably everything else. They use the Federal Reserve for whatever they want to. There was another quote from a senator or congressman about the Fed pumping money into Germany after WWII and that they own about everything there. One of the leaders of Russia after WWI said things about not being in charge, and not driving the car so to speak. Another US senator or congressman said things about the banks and that they had evil designs, and he died in a 747 that was "accidentally" shot down over Russia at some point.

    Why do I post all of this? Freaking out about cutting spending and reducing taxes don't get to the heart of the problem. Income taxes didn't really begin in earnest until 1913, which just happens to be the same year of the Federal Reserve Act. Coincidence? The income taxes were primarily to be used to pay the interest on the debt incurred from the nation with the Federal Reserve. We would not even have to pay an income tax if we didn't have the Federal Reserve doing for us something we can constitutionally do for ourselves free of interest and burden.

    Again, the heart of the issue is not spending and/or taxes. Those are distractions. Those truly in charge of all of us are the ones really in charge of both Republican and Democratic parties and are just playing games to distract us. Back to the Gary Allen Quote, both parties are really on board with the socialism agenda historically despite what is said. These puppet masters pull the strings, and they are the few with everything while everyone else is at their whim. They know people historically are not smart enough to see them for what they are and rise up as one to stop them. They just go along their merry way and endure whatever happens. They continue to make money during depressions, during good times, they crash housing markets, they crash stock markets, they do whatever they want because they are all united and they control the flow of the cash.

    Blame it all on the Fed, that's who is holding Burks hostage.

    FREE BURKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    Gyp Rosetti and jacktheripper like this.
  9. TheSilencer1313

    TheSilencer1313 Well-Known Member

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    How many years have I been saying this? And how many years have the political watchers stuck in the "left/right paradigm" been ignoring the fact that the Fed has been bankrupting this country?
     
  10. Dr. Jones

    Dr. Jones In pursuit of #9 Contributor

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    I read it all. Some very interesting stuff quoted that I had never read before.
    I'm going to withhold opinion and judgment until Franklin tells us what's up.
     
  11. Gyp Rosetti

    Gyp Rosetti Banned

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    I am totally and utterly consumed by this post.
     
  12. franklin

    franklin Well-Known Member

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    We're all in on a scheme to suck the lifeblood out of JazzSpazz & Silencer. It's a conspiracy started by Benjamin Franklin and perpetuated through numerous founding fathers and now via academia. The only way to get in on it is being born Rothschild spawn.

    Spazz, no offense intended, but you do not understand how the Federal Reserve system works and made that very clear multiple times in your post. Also, if you think congress has a spending problem now then giving them full reign to print and spend money to their heart's content is insane.
     
  13. Scat

    Scat Well-Known Member

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    **boom!!**
     
  14. Jazz Spazz

    Jazz Spazz Inconceivable Staff Member

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    Did I outline a whole plan where we allow congress to "spend money to their heart's content"? There would have to be checks and balances, and it would take time to fix, just as it took time to get where we are now. Yes, there is a global economy to deal with, and it makes it even more difficult when much of that global economy is pushed and pulled from those central banks with their hands in the currency of many countries.

    Are we in pretty deep, sure. Would it hurt to take our country back? Sure. Are there plenty of people in on it that would fight this in every level of our government, business as well as foreign interests? Sure. Is the answer to let it go and just accept what is given to us? I don't think so.

    I understand more of how the Federal Reserve works than you think, or than I put in that post... but please enlighten me.

    I would appreciate it.
     
  15. Jazz Spazz

    Jazz Spazz Inconceivable Staff Member

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    The backup singer chimes in. :)
     
  16. Stoked

    Stoked Modstapo Staff Member

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    I am curious who you see as "stuck in the left/right paradigm".
     
  17. franklin

    franklin Well-Known Member

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    You consider congress printing and spending money not debt but the Fed printing and giving money to congress to spend as debt?

    Nonsense. We elect members from academia. There isn't a multi-thousand person conspiracy of Americans perpetuating control for the Queen of England.

    And caused a severe depression that hurt many Americans. He starved citizens over a stupid obsession. Also, George Washington signed that bank's chartered. I don't think Washington was a puppet of the England he just defeated, nor someone Andrew Jackson needed to conquer to right the ship.

    That's what bankers do. They charge interest.

    I heard it was vampires.

    We created the Federal Reserve to counter bankers ability to do this and destroy entire communities in the process (back then). Americans were very leery of allowing congress full power to print to their heart's content because they do what politicians do without any controls -- screw everything up! We also didn't trust dirty capitalists with full control so we created this hybrid system and it has worked quite wonderfully compared to the several archaic systems experimented with in the 17th - 19th centuries.

    Good thing we control it then.

    I don't want the boys in the trailer park determining monetary policy.

    That was before the Fed and it looks to me like President Garfield got what he called for when the Federal Reserve was created and took that power away from the banking cartels.

    Did he now.



    Desperate times, desperate measures. Lincoln did what he had to do to fund a war. Good on him for doing it.




    Income taxes would be more necessary under a system where congress prints and spends money.

    Myth. All interest paid to the Federal Reserve is sent right back to the US Treasury every year. With the expansion of the Fed's balance sheet, payment into the Treasury went from something like $39billion to over $70 last year. The funding for Fed operations comes from universal check clearing fees.

    Money would have no validity without income taxes under such a system, and would quickly enter the worthlessness spiral.
     
  18. franklin

    franklin Well-Known Member

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    If you think you have a better system then by all means please tell us what it would look like. Everyone should be open to the newer and better. It's fun seeing the progressive side of you bucking conservative tradition.
     
  19. Gameface

    Gameface Fire Controlman

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    I'm mostly ignorant on these highfalutin topics so correct me if I'm wrong, but if congress could print money uncontrolled, and they did so, wouldn't all the little people with retirement plans and savings accounts be the biggest losers as their life savings became worthless?
     
  20. Stoked

    Stoked Modstapo Staff Member

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    That is who I understand it but economics is not my strong point either.
     

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