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RealGM reports Jazz interested in Trading for John Collins


homeytennis

Well-Known Member
I dont know for sure, but it has something to do with maximizing possessions within a game.

E: I just copied that from Wikipedia.
It's lost opportunity cost. With the shot clock violation you are losing the chance for a three point shot, three point play or a two point shot. Stats wise it works out.
 


KqWIN

Well-Known Member
Right now I’m only doing no brainer deals. Like when the Kings got Heurter for a pick. Guys are just continuing to surprise… Lauri is a revelation, Malik has been on an absolute heater and I want to see it continue, JC learned to balance scoring and passing while playing okayish defense, Kessler has shown some promise, THT has shown major improvement imo, Hardy seems to press most of the right buttons…

Collins is intriguing but it’s a pass for me unless it’s highway robbery. Depending on what happens with Mike I am not seeing a whole lot of obvious trades out there.

IMO, this is exactly why you trade for a player like Collins. His value is at an all time low, but he has great attributes. If you believe in Hardy's ability to get the most of out guys, you want to bring in guys like John Collins at this exact timing. There have been a few people asking "why?"...but this is exactly why.

And while we're on that theme, it's great to feel good about yourselves when things are going good...but it's very easy to overrate your own players when they are on a hot streak. If we did a roundtable opinion on Sexton, Conley, and Beasley etc. two weeks ago I'd imagine it would be very different than it is now. That's just how people work....but I wouldn't want a hot/cold streak to dictate too much of this team's decision making.
 

Tremendous Upside

Well-Known Member
IMO, this is exactly why you trade for a player like Collins. His value is at an all time low, but he has great attributes. If you believe in Hardy's ability to get the most of out guys, you want to bring in guys like John Collins at this exact timing. There have been a few people asking "why?"...but this is exactly why.

And while we're on that theme, it's great to feel good about yourselves when things are going good...but it's very easy to overrate your own players when they are on a hot streak. If we did a roundtable opinion on Sexton, Conley, and Beasley etc. two weeks ago I'd imagine it would be very different than it is now. That's just how people work....but I wouldn't want a hot/cold streak to dictate too much of this team's decision making.
Great attributes?

Collins is a guy who ended up in a great situation (got paid, starts on a winning team) but still somehow managed to become unhappy. That's a gigantic red flag. He thinks it's all about him and his touches.

Many guys on this Utah team play with legit chips on their shoulders. Collins isn't like that. His team handed him the bag before he'd proven anything, and he's never even been challenged at Atlanta.
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
IMO, this is exactly why you trade for a player like Collins. His value is at an all time low, but he has great attributes. If you believe in Hardy's ability to get the most of out guys, you want to bring in guys like John Collins at this exact timing. There have been a few people asking "why?"...but this is exactly why.

And while we're on that theme, it's great to feel good about yourselves when things are going good...but it's very easy to overrate your own players when they are on a hot streak. If we did a roundtable opinion on Sexton, Conley, and Beasley etc. two weeks ago I'd imagine it would be very different than it is now. That's just how people work....but I wouldn't want a hot/cold streak to dictate too much of this team's decision making.
What are his attributes exactly?
 

KqWIN

Well-Known Member
Great attributes?

Collins is a guy who ended up in a great situation (got paid, starts on a winning team) but still somehow managed to become unhappy. That's a gigantic red flag. He thinks it's all about him and his touches.

Many guys on this Utah team play with legit chips on their shoulders. Collins isn't like that. His team handed him the bag before he'd proven anything, and he's never even been challenged at Atlanta.

Yes. He's a tremendous athlete with great touch around the basket and also a capable shooter. That's what got him paid. Many guys on this Jazz team had the same criticisms coming into this year. Seriously, look down the Jazz roster and you'll find the same complaints everyone has about Collins. Fact is, players need the right situation to succeed. For John Collins, the right situation for him isn't one that has him standing around and not being involved in the offense. You won't find many young players as productive as he was who are content with being phased out of the offense. Lauri certainly wasn't. Ironically, Lauri and Collins have very similar paths as young players. Both were very productive, then stalled out and could not adjust to less touches. This whole season has been predicated on turning lemons into lemonade. I think if you put John Collins on this team you will see a drastically different and more productive player, just as was the case with several others.
 

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
Yes. He's a tremendous athlete with great touch around the basket and also a capable shooter. That's what got him paid. Many guys on this Jazz team had the same criticisms coming into this year. Seriously, look down the Jazz roster and you'll find the same complaints everyone has about Collins. Fact is, players need the right situation to succeed. For John Collins, the right situation for him isn't one that has him standing around and not being involved in the offense. You won't find many young players as productive as he was who are content with being phased out of the offense. Lauri certainly wasn't. Ironically, Lauri and Collins have very similar paths as young players. Both were very productive, then stalled out and could not adjust to less touches. This whole season has been predicated on turning lemons into lemonade. I think if you put John Collins on this team you will see a drastically different and more productive player, just as was the case with several others.
But can he be in a ball movement/player movement offense or is he just a guy who wants every PNR to get passed to him, a guy who wants iso touches on the elbows, etc.
 

KqWIN

Well-Known Member
But can he be in a ball movement/player movement offense or is he just a guy who wants every PNR to get passed to him, a guy who wants iso touches on the elbows, etc.

I think our offense would be perfect for him. The one criticism that can be made about his offense is that he's not much of a self creator. He was one of the best play finishers especially as a roll man. Our player/ball movement would create a lot of opportunities for him. He was an elite PnR finisher, but ATL basically took that part of his game away. Whenever a big guy complains about his role, it usually means a guy wants more post up touches. I can see why that throws off a lot of people, but I don't think that's the case for Collins. The Hawks run a very simple offense were there isn't much ball movement and instead spread out and run PnR with Trae. So if you're not involved in the PnR, you're just standing around. Collins isn't a player who is meant to be standing around. If Collins was setting screens and moving on the court I think he'd be right back to where he was and even better. If the offensive plan is to run PnR and have everyone else space out and not move, Collins is going to have to be the roll man or you're going to run into the problems that ATL currently has with him. But if your offensive plan is to use all 5 players and get everyone involved, I think he can really shine.
 

Coach Ellis

Well-Known Member
Eh this trade would be on the basis of adding a future piece while paying 50c on the dollar. The entire piece doesn't have to fit as long as going forward you can add the right pieces around the likes of Lauri and Collins.

Personally I would rather try and sign either Kuzma or Jerami Grant as free agents in the off season and trade for Collins should we strike out on either of those guys.

Also can we stop overrating Olynyk. Since his hot start he has reverted back to a 37% three point shooter and getting 2.8 assist per game. He is a big capable of making passes more so than a playmaking big. I like the guy and he would have been the ideal back up on previous Jazz teams but should be viewed as one year rental/trade bait meaning if the right deal come along he would be our most expendable player.
I love the idea of either Kuzma or Grant on this team, but what’s even the pathway to acquire one of them?

Would’ve loved a Bogey/Grant swap early on, but I don’t see how Portland lets him get away at this point.
 

Coach Ellis

Well-Known Member
He ranks 92nd in usage rate for NBA, between Collin Sexton and Keon Johnson. 39th for forwards.

In touches he is 114th overall and 49th among forwards. Thays even more of a disgrace because of the minutes he plays.

Even in the category on centers, he is 19th in touches, between offensive juggernauts Valanciunas and Jarrett Allen.

So no, we are not feeding him as his production deserves. Imagine how much hidden potential there is.
Especially with how efficiently he seems to put up numbers. Seems he makes the most of his opportunities AND does so in a way that contributes to winning.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
IMO, this is exactly why you trade for a player like Collins. His value is at an all time low, but he has great attributes. If you believe in Hardy's ability to get the most of out guys, you want to bring in guys like John Collins at this exact timing. There have been a few people asking "why?"...but this is exactly why.

And while we're on that theme, it's great to feel good about yourselves when things are going good...but it's very easy to overrate your own players when they are on a hot streak. If we did a roundtable opinion on Sexton, Conley, and Beasley etc. two weeks ago I'd imagine it would be very different than it is now. That's just how people work....but I wouldn't want a hot/cold streak to dictate too much of this team's decision making.
The only guy I’d change my assessment on from 2 weeks ago is Beasley… it’s partly what he’s doing now but it’s also that he’s had moments like this in the past and injuries/off court issues/coaching and personnel changes kinda blocked him from building on it.

I’m just not sure on Collins… prolly need to watch him more. If the market value is that he’s not a positive given his contract then I’d see what we could cobble together. Because of contract size it’s likely costing one of Beasley/Mike/KO… would need to be a three team deal if it’s Mike as there isn’t really a need. If it was KO and Vando plus filler I’d prolly do that. I’d be really hesitant to put Malik in that deal.

When you think of what we need next to Lauri/JC/Mike I think Collins tics a few boxes. Could be some issues in Atlanta that make it a great value… it’s interesting/tempting.
 

Coach Ellis

Well-Known Member
I love the triple towers concept, but the Jazz need wings, wings, more wings and a lead ball handler for life after Conley. I’d like to see if any undervalued wings hit the market leading up to the deadline. That’s where I’d focus my efforts and assets.
 


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