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Takes on the 1st and 2nd-year players....and progress if there happens to be any

Tremendous Upside said:
The drafting has been abysmal. No other way to say it.
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The drafting has been fine. The Jazz have just been operating from less-than-optimal draft spots. If you look at the OKC Thunder, they drafted guys like Giddey (6), Wallace (10) and Dieng (11). Those were guys taken in the same range as the Jazz have been drafting. None of them are likely to be starters on a high-level team. Two are coming off the bench, and one was traded already. OKC also got nothing from Bazley, Pokusevski or Tre Mann.

OKC hit home runs with Chet Holmgren (#2) and SGA in the PG13 trade. Jalen Williams is good too, but I think he benefits from other guys taking the defensive pressure.
 
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KqWIN said:
Cody - Similar to Hendricks, likely role player and low potential….but for different reasons. His versatility shows on the offensive end. A little bit of shooting, ball handling, passing, and scoring. He can be ok at all of these things but likely not great. Best skill is his finishing and seems to be a smart player. On ball defense looks promising, but doesn’t do anything else on defense. No presence unless he’s directly on the ball. Think he could be something like current day Exum. A decent player who fills in the gaps on offense and guards on the ball well. It’s very early though, physical development will be important. Could be a Batum like player, but he’s likely too passive for that.
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There's a scenario where Cody develops his body and his confidence and becomes an impactful player by his 3rd year or so. His tools and skills give him a high ceiling. The question is whether he has the competitive fire to strive for it, or if he's just too much of a laid back dude. He's got a lot of work to do. Hopefully, his sibling rivalry with his brother pushes him along.
 
YoungJefe said:
So far it's looking like Danny dumped two superstars in their prime to build around:

Keyonte George - Trey Burke
Cody Williams - Dante Exum / Tony Snell
Brice Sensabaugh - Taller THT
Taylor Hendricks - Rob Covington
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Superstars? Nah.
All stars, sure I can dig it.

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
There's a scenario where Cody develops his body and his confidence and becomes an impactful player by his 3rd year or so. His tools and skills give him a high ceiling. The question is whether he has the competitive fire to strive for it, or if he's just too much of a laid back dude. He's got a lot of work to do. Hopefully, his sibling rivalry with his brother pushes him along.
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I don't think his physical tools are that amazing. He's long, but also extremely frail and not particularly athletic. There's more to this than wingspan. I wouldn't say they are bad, he's probably still above average, but not the type of tools that make him special. Hendricks, for example, has much better physical tools IMO but also isn't elite.

Skill wise he's okay at a lot of things, which is definitely worth something, but I really question if he's ever going to be a guy that can consistently imprint impact on the game. I don't know how he does that without extreme development. But if you project everyone with extreme development, everyone has high potential.

And yes, his mentality towards the game is a big part of this. I have mixed thoughts on how much this can actually be improved, but he's not active on either end. Definitely not a guy who does a lot of stuff on the court, he's mostly a background guy and this was true at Colorado as well. There are some star players who were once much smaller role players and grew into a larger role, but he just doesn't strike me as one of those guys who will scale up. He can scale up from being Snell, but probably won't become a leading player IMO.

The combo of his physical tools/skills/mentality just screams role player to me. On the brightside, I think he is likely to make the improvements to become a role player that is in the league for a long time. I don't think that's too harsh for the 10th pick in a terrible draft.
 
KqWIN said:
I don't think his physical tools are that amazing. He's long, but also extremely frail and not particularly athletic. There's more to this than wingspan. I wouldn't say they are bad, he's probably still above average, but not the type of tools that make him special. Hendricks, for example, has much better physical tools IMO but also isn't elite.

Skill wise he's okay at a lot of things, which is definitely worth something, but I really question if he's ever going to be a guy that can consistently imprint impact on the game. I don't know how he does that without extreme development. But if you project everyone with extreme development, everyone has high potential.

And yes, his mentality towards the game is a big part of this. I have mixed thoughts on how much this can actually be improved, but he's not active on either end. Definitely not a guy who does a lot of stuff on the court, he's mostly a background guy and this was true at Colorado as well. There are some star players who were once much smaller role players and grew into a larger role, but he just doesn't strike me as one of those guys who will scale up. He can scale up from being Snell, but probably won't become a leading player IMO.

The combo of his physical tools/skills/mentality just screams role player to me. On the brightside, I think he is likely to make the improvements to become a role player that is in the league for a long time. I don't think that's too harsh for the 10th pick in a terrible draft.
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The problem with Hendricks is that he has very limited ball skills, and those are difficult to develop late in life. With Cody, there are a number of outcomes, ranging from Jaden McDaniels to Jerami Grant to a big guard like Latrell Sprewell who can give you 20 ppg. It's just going to take a few years for his body to fill out.
 
KqWIN said:
Keyonte - Likely low end starter, 6th man type of guy. The standard for being an NBA PG is really high. Darius Garland is about the level of an average, starting PG and I think that would be near the very high end of outcomes for him. Realistically, he’s probably more of a lower third starting PG in the same vein as DLO or have a career as a 6th man like Monk or Clarkson. I don’t really care about PG/SG….but I think his on ball/off ball mix is too tilted towards being an on ball player. It has to be that way, however, as we are very deficient in ball handling. I think his offense will improve but his defense is likely to be terrible. Don’t think he will flame out but is also unlikely to be an above average starter.

Hendricks - Likely role player, low potential. He will probably be a good defender. I would feel comfortable saying he already is. I think he will be a versatile defender who is a B+ or A- in several roles. If his activity level was more consistent, I’d say he could be a great defender or even beyond that. But his activity level goes up and down. Offensively, I’ve somewhat given up hope that he will be a volume 3 point shooter and I never bought into the idea of him as some kind of rim runner. He’ll probably be a KCP/DFS stand around, passable-ish shooter kind of offensive player. Will be in the league a long time.

Cody - Similar to Hendricks, likely role player and low potential….but for different reasons. His versatility shows on the offensive end. A little bit of shooting, ball handling, passing, and scoring. He can be ok at all of these things but likely not great. Best skill is his finishing and seems to be a smart player. On ball defense looks promising, but doesn’t do anything else on defense. No presence unless he’s directly on the ball. Think he could be something like current day Exum. A decent player who fills in the gaps on offense and guards on the ball well. It’s very early though, physical development will be important. Could be a Batum like player, but he’s likely too passive for that.
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Key is sadly too small to be a 2 guard and not a good enough creator to be a PG. Probably will be a 6th man type of dude long term, DLo / Clarkson / Sexton archetype.

Hendricks best case outcome is probably Robert Covington, which is okay and good if you have a good team, doesn't really help us tho

Cody has more upside than Hendricks just because of his potential as a creator for himself and others. Best case scenario is a Brandon Ingram type of player?
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
The problem with Hendricks is that he has very limited ball skills, and those are difficult to develop late in life. With Cody, there are a number of outcomes, ranging from Jaden McDaniels to Jerami Grant to a big guard like Latrell Sprewell who can give you 20 ppg. It's just going to take a few years for his body to fill out.
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Agreed. I can still see the potential with Cody because there's a chance he becomes a good creator. Hendricks is never going to be more than a 3&D guy
 
Ultimately Keyonte might just be a 6th man, but I still believe in him as a quality starter.

I do think the Jazz would be greatly helped by getting a veteran PG. I think DeAron Fox could be a target with him having one foot out the door of Sacramento.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
The problem with Hendricks is that he has very limited ball skills, and those are difficult to develop late in life. With Cody, there are a number of outcomes, ranging from Jaden McDaniels to Jerami Grant to a big guard like Latrell Sprewell who can give you 20 ppg. It's just going to take a few years for his body to fill out.
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Most skills are difficult to learn later in life. It’s also very hard to change your personality. I wouldn’t say McDaniels or Grant or unrealistic outcomes…but also not high ones either. Those guys also played with an intensity level that is completely foreign to Cody right from the jump.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Ultimately Keyonte might just be a 6th man, but I still believe in him as a quality starter.

I do think the Jazz would be greatly helped by getting a veteran PG. I think DeAron Fox could be a target with him having one foot out the door of Sacramento.
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I think he needs a better mix of on ball/off ball duties. He was way more of an off ball player at Baylor and I think it’s a mistake to lose that…but with the current roster there is no other ball handler to enable that. A better ball handler could help him.

One of the issues I see is that he will probably just be a terrible defender no matter what his role/who he’s guarding. Unless he’s super elite on offense….he’s probably restricted to a bench role.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Ultimately Keyonte might just be a 6th man, but I still believe in him as a quality starter.

I do think the Jazz would be greatly helped by getting a veteran PG. I think DeAron Fox could be a target with him having one foot out the door of Sacramento.
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Fox is the type of move you make if you wanna cement yourself as a team that regularly finishes 4-6 in the West with no chance of contending
 
HermanG said:
Let me get this straight...

Two games into the season and the main topic of discussion is "all our kids suck" and guys are posting long winded analysis on their low ceilings.

Lord save us all this season is gonna be rough around here.
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Tbf, my opinion isn’t based on 2 games but everything we know of them whether that’s true or rookie season or predraft. If you go back a year ago, my opinion on guys like Hendricks and Keyonte isn’t much different. Things can change of course, but so far not much has besides Keyonte’s initial jump. I was relatively high on him predraft though.
 
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What scares me is it the Jazz can't build off any of their young players, they are going to have to start over again. Unfortunate, we are at the bottom with no clear way to improve. It is essential that Keyonte works out.
 
SojoDave said:
What scares me is it the Jazz can't build off any of their young players, they are going to have to start over again. Unfortunate, we are at the bottom with no clear way to improve. It is essential that Keyonte works out.
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Honestly, I don’t think the Jazz path to greatness was ever going to be made via mid to late lottery picks + Lauri. That doesn’t mean the current young guys can’t be valuable NBA players on a good team.

Also, the Jazz have plenty of ways to improve that aren’t predicated on any of the young guys becoming superstars.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
I'm having a hard time getting too excited about our young players at the moment. I think they're rotational guys, and a few might be starters, but I'm not seeing bonafide stars at this point.
  • Taylor Hendricks remains in the Dorian Finney-Smith archetype. He's fine as a 3D guy with NBA length, who likely fits in as the 5th - 7th guy on a playoff team. He's not much of a roller, slasher or scorer.
  • Brice Sensabaugh did some really nice things as an isolation scorer and self-creator at Ohio State, but he's looking more like Aaron Nesmith vs. NBA size, speed and physicality. He has value as a confident shooter.
  • Keyonte is a talented scorer, but I don't think he's the guy who runs your team or leads your team like he may think he is. He might be in the same ballpark as Reggie Jackson.
  • Cody Williams has some really nice tools, shows good timing on defensive plays, and is a crisp passer. The question will be whether he's aggressive enough about his career to add the toughness and physicality he needs to have a real impact. He lacks physical presence, he avoids contact, and he defers a lot at this stage.
  • Filipowski is interesting as a complementary big who does a bit of everything, but he needs to fit into a more developed team concept in order to add value.
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I hope Keyonte becomes a talented scorer and a MUCH BETTER decision maker but 39% FG and 33% 3pt is not a talented scorer in my book.
 
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