The role of PGs for winning NBA titles

[BTP]

Griffin won't be top 5 until he can take over a game by himself. He needs CP3 and a good team to look great.

He's in that Dwight Howard class. Great to have on your team but far from a hall of famer. Clippers should trade him to build a real contender around CP3, not the other way around as they've tried.

I don't like Blake Griffin as a person and I'm pretty amused everytime he getts whacked.

But I have to admit that he can ball and is the best PF in the league right now. Last year when Christina Paul was on her annual 20 game hiatus he completely dominated. His game is steadily expanding and I'm interested to see what he can do this year from a basketball standpoint.
And of course I wanna see ppl mix it up with him so he can finally be involved in a real brawl instead of doing his retaliation cheapshots that don't get whistled...

 

[stitches]

I don't like Blake Griffin as a person and I'm pretty amused everytime he getts whacked.

But I have to admit that he can ball and is the best PF in the league right now. Last year when Christina Paul was on her annual 20 game hiatus he completely dominated. His game is steadily expanding and I'm interested to see what he can do this year from a basketball standpoint.
And of course I wanna see ppl mix it up with him so he can finally be involved in a real brawl instead of doing his retaliation cheapshots that don't get whistled...

Yep, I am of the same opinion. When Paul was gone last year, he was something like 28/10 last year, with 56% shooting... He received the 4th most votes in the MVP race...

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

I don't like Blake Griffin as a person and I'm pretty amused everytime he getts whacked.

But I have to admit that he can ball and is the best PF in the league right now. Last year when Christina Paul was on her annual 20 game hiatus he completely dominated. His game is steadily expanding and I'm interested to see what he can do this year from a basketball standpoint.
And of course I wanna see ppl mix it up with him so he can finally be involved in a real brawl instead of doing his retaliation cheapshots that don't get whistled...

I think that Griffin does take a lot of cheap shots by his defenders. But I can't blame them! He is 6 ft 10 and 251 lbs. and he does nothing when someone tries to muscle him in the post. He's just now saying that he will retaliate against those that push him. I ask, "what the hell took so long?" He has the size to teach them a lesson which is a part of the game. Malone did it and earned respect and those that forgot were soon forced to remember why you don't just drive in the paint while Malone was one the floor. Griffin needs to do the same thing.

 

[franklin]

I don't like Blake Griffin as a person and I'm pretty amused everytime he getts whacked.

But I have to admit that he can ball and is the best PF in the league right now. Last year when Christina Paul was on her annual 20 game hiatus he completely dominated. His game is steadily expanding and I'm interested to see what he can do this year from a basketball standpoint.
And of course I wanna see ppl mix it up with him so he can finally be involved in a real brawl instead of doing his retaliation cheapshots that don't get whistled...

Yep, I am of the same opinion. When Paul was gone last year, he was something like 28/10 last year, with 56% shooting... He received the 4th most votes in the MVP race...

If he's that good then why can't the Clips make any noise? He's playing with arguably the best player not named LeBron or Durant. CP3 puts up damn near Stockton ast% and steal% #'s with better scoring.

 

[stitches]

If he's that good then why can't the Clips make any noise? He's playing with arguably the best player not named LeBron or Durant. CP3 puts up damn near Stockton ast% and steal% #'s with better scoring.

Because... OP.

Pretty much the only great PG to win a title in his prime in the last 25 years is Tony Parker, and I'd argue that it is mainly because of the system they have in SAS. When you have 25-30% of your salary cap tied up with the PG that means you can't spend that money on a great in-the-paint presence or wing scorer. As others have argued - in this era it seems like the PG spot is really competitive and the difference between having the best PG and having the 10th best or 15th best is not as big as the difference between having the best wing or big man and having the 15th best. Also when playoffs come, it is usually much easier to shut down the best PG(by overmatching them vs taller/bigger good perimeter defender - something that most contending teams have) than it is to shut down the best big man/wing, etc.

We will see if they manage to do it this year, if they do, it'd be a great indicator just how good both Paul and Griffin are.

 

[stitches]

well... this one didn't age well...

Every single one of the last 4 championships since I posted this one has had an all-nba/all-star level PG.

Is it the changing league towards small/skill ball or is it just a weird sample I based my thread on? Maybe a little bit of both.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

well... this one didn't age well...

Every single one of the last 4 championships since I posted this one has had an all-nba/all-star level PG.

Is it the changing league towards small/skill ball or is it just a weird sample I based my thread on? Maybe a little bit of both.

The position has changed... scoring guards used to be not true Pgs and bad... same thing with combo forwards... used to be tweeners

 

[fishonjazz]

well... this one didn't age well...

Every single one of the last 4 championships since I posted this one has had an all-nba/all-star level PG.

Is it the changing league towards small/skill ball or is it just a weird sample I based my thread on? Maybe a little bit of both.

It’s cause the warriors are dynasty and the outlier team of all outlier teams.

 

[Jack Strop]

^Don't forget Kyrie when the Cavs won and the key role he played.

 

[LoPo]

I have always thought that you cannot win if your best player is a small score first PG. The only times in history are Isaiah Thomas twice and Steph Curry in 2015.

Outside of those 3, is there another champion led by a score first PG?

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[silesian]

IT was not score first.

 

[Jack Strop]

Well, the best "pass-first" PG in the history of the league never won a title, either.

 

[LoPo]

I'm not saying I was right, that's just what I always believed until Steph won it in 2015.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[gregbroncs]

I did some research on the PGs of the last 20-21 years since I've noticed that the teams who win NBA championships usually don't have an all-star level PGs. For the 21 seasons I reviewed, the team that became a champion had an all-star PG in the respective year only twice - both San Antonio with Tony Parker as their main PG(2007 and 2014).

The average stats for the starting PGs of the championship teams were as follows:
Age: 29.05
MPG: 29.67
PPG: 11.2
RBPG: 2.84
APG: 4.44
STL: 1.18
BLK: 0.2
TOV: 1.7
FG%: 44%
3P%: 34%
FT%: 78%

I kind of expected the PPG to not be very high, but even the APG number seems quite abysmal for the position. The average winshare per 48 minutes is 0.135. Most of them are between 4th and 7th best player on their team according to that stat. The only PG to be leading that category for his team in a championship year was Chauncey Billups with .198.

I haven't done the same for the other positions(I might do it this weekend if there is enough interest), but even without doing it, to me it seems clear that the PG position is one of the least important position when it comes to winning titles. Yes, a good PG will make your team good enough to be a playoff team, but it seems like teams would be much better off concentrating their resources into other positions(if possible) if they want to contend for a title.

never mind just realized this was an old thread.

 

[Elizah Huge]

never mind just realized this was an old thread.

This was made 4 years ago.. lol

 

[fishonjazz]

never mind just realized this was an old thread.

That post you quoted sure is interesting though. The average stats for championship point guards was 11 points, 4.4 assists and 2.8 rebounds? Unexpected to say the least. To me anyways.

I glad you quoted that post.

 

[Elizah Huge]

That post you quoted sure is interesting though. The average stats for championship point guards was 11 points, 4.4 assists and 2.8 rebounds? Unexpected to say the least. To me anyways.

I glad you quoted that post.

It’s on the first page lol

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Pass-first PGs like Kidd and Rondo have helped run championship offenses.

I think Nash would have a ring if not for that whole Cheapshot-Rob thing.

 

[infection]

There are a lot of ways to win. Teams that win have a tendency to continue to win. Humans have a tendency to look at small samples and draw universal conclusions.

 

[gregbroncs]

That post you quoted sure is interesting though. The average stats for championship point guards was 11 points, 4.4 assists and 2.8 rebounds? Unexpected to say the least. To me anyways.

I glad you quoted that post.

It was interesting, except the last 4 champions have had not just all star but all NBA PG's and have completely reversed that trend.