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When will Snyder or Gobert become responsible for our offensive woes?

magic

magic

Well-Known Member
It took Hayward physically leaving Utah for most of this forum to realize he was overrated, so for the independent minds on this forum: If the Jazz continue being bad at offense, when will the "beloved" Snyder or Gobert finally get the blame?

Regarding Snyder, all of our guards that played for him end up sucking. And some were/are great on other teams (Rubio and Conley). If some of the guards played well and a couple of them sucked, then you could perhaps blame the guards, but literally all of our point guards have not played well in Snyder's system. This has to call for more than just a coincidence.

As for Gobert, it was easy to blame the spacing on having two big men that crowded up the lane. But Favors is gone and we've literally surrounded Gobert with "shooters". But we are still having problems.

At this point I'm not a believer of Quin's system. Yes, we will probably get it together around midseason like we have the past three seasons. Our schedule will be lighter and we will have a sense of unwarranted optimism. But come playoff time, it's looking like the same damn thing is going to happen again.
 
The ball is sticking. For that I do lay a lot of blame on Quin. We overpass and get turnovers, but we also get tunnel vision and don’t move the ball. The over passing is more because whoever is trying to create gets forced into a pass, and not because they’re really moving the ball.

Gobert is the only blameless person this year. Bogey would be a distant second.
 
infection said:
The ball is sticking. For that I do lay a lot of blame on Quin. We overpass and get turnovers, but we also get tunnel vision and don’t move the ball. The over passing is more because whoever is trying to create gets forced into a pass, and not because they’re really moving the ball.

Gobert is the only blameless person this year. Bogey would be a distant second.
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Yeah, I don't think Gobert should get any blame because I think he is just following Snyder's instructions. But if he was just doing his own thing out there on offense, then that's a different story.
 
Gobert made comments about wanting to be passed the ball more in offense. This in my view led to increased forced passes which led to turnovers or a circus shot and missed free throws.

Unless Gobert gets a truly reliable inside move, he needs to fight for the putbacks or accept the ball handler decisions based on what the opposing team defense gives us.

The only offensive weapon that Gobert has is his dunk. He should at least have a reliable hook shot by now. He wastes a lot of energy sealing on offense for an inside pass, but if he actually gets the ball he is unable to do anything useful with it.. and if we are lucky he gets a couple of free throws. His percentages there aren't great either.

That being said, Gobert does a huge amount for us on the other end. So i really hope he can develop at the offensive end further
 
magic said:
It took Hayward physically leaving Utah for most of this forum to realize he was overrated, so for the independent minds on this forum: If the Jazz continue being bad at offense, when will the "beloved" Snyder or Gobert finally get the blame?

Regarding Snyder, all of our guards that played for him end up sucking. And some were/are great on other teams (Rubio and Conley). If some of the guards played well and a couple of them sucked, then you could perhaps blame the guards, but literally all of our point guards have not played well in Snyder's system. This has to call for more than just a coincidence.

As for Gobert, it was easy to blame the spacing on having two big men that crowded up the lane. But Favors is gone and we've literally surrounded Gobert with "shooters". But we are still having problems.

At this point I'm not a believer of Quin's system. Yes, we will probably get it together around midseason like we have the past three seasons. Our schedule will be lighter and we will have a sense of unwarranted optimism. But come playoff time, it's looking like the same damn thing is going to happen again.
Click to expand...

I mean this is just wildly incorrect. Hill and Rubio had career years while playing for Quin... so Conley has sucked for 10 games... not sure that’s on Quin.

Quin needs to change some things up or get through to our players but they also need to run the stuff and make some shots. I doubt Quin designed his offense to get 400 floaters a game. It needs to be corrected... and that is on him.
 
What I noticed last night is that if Mitchell or Conley have the ball they are going to try and get theirs 99 out of 100 times. The two guys that should be passing the most are not, and getting into ridiculous situations where they either turn the ball over or take a horrid shot. I am to the point where I bench Conley and start Mudiay.
 
Locke has had multiple episodes so far centered on how our shot quality went from 1st in the league last year to like 25th this year, where good shots are 3s and restricted area and bad shots are extended paint and long 2s. We are also taking less 3s overall than last year. He also commented that we are seeing less spot ups than last year, and many fewer “wide open” shots. Ingles for example has taken almost as many contested 3s this year as he did all of last year combined.

That comes to 2 conclusions for me.
1) With the addition of Conley, and Mitchell’s progression path, they both take a lot of midrange shots in comparison to last years roster. We also have bogey, green, and mudiay who shoot plenty of midrange.

2) Snyder’s offense generated “good” shots because of Rubio (sagging defenses) and other “non-shooters”. Defenses are guarding our guys very tightly on the perimeter and dropping the big, and the only thing our offense is doing to adjust is getting to no mans land about 18 feet out and getting us bad shots or turnovers if we try to force it.

Not sure if the offensive problems are solely on the personnel or if Quinn’s offense just doesn’t work. But it is worth a discussion at this point.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I mean this is just wildly incorrect. Hill and Rubio had career years while playing for Quin... so Conley has sucked for 10 games... not sure that’s on Quin.

Quin needs to change some things up or get through to our players but they also need to run the stuff and make some shots. I doubt Quin designed his offense to get 400 floaters a game. It needs to be corrected... and that is on him.
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The 2 worst healthy years of Rubio's career were in Utah.
 
Scat said:
What I noticed last night is that if Mitchell or Conley have the ball they are going to try and get theirs 99 out of 100 times. The two guys that should be passing the most are not, and getting into ridiculous situations where they either turn the ball over or take a horrid shot. I am to the point where I bench Conley and start Mudiay.
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Mudiay doesn't pass either. We have 3 of 4 primary ball handlers that don't pass. It's getting stupid. Only Joe reliably looks for the pass, but his touches are limited and he often just goes at the basket too. I don't get it. I'm also disappointed how often there are open shooters yet the driver just plows into the lane. And I'm also disappointed how this motion offense ends up totally stagnant with 4 guys standing in one spot watching 1 guy put his head down and hero ball himself into the lane, and then continue to stand there when he gets himself stuck. I end up yelling "****ing move" at the tv way too much during games. It's embarrassing actually.
 
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I put this on Mitchell and Conley, but for different reasons.

Mitchell has been attacking with more space. But he’s also been taking way too many shots in the mid range, and this tells me that he’s not really sticking with Quinn‘s plan. He is absolutely just trying to get his own shots, and it is mucking up everyone else. He needs to find a better balance between what’s there for him and what’s there for his teammates as a result of the prior.

For Conley, it is a matter of learning the offense. Which I don’t think he has yet. There are so many moments when it looks like he still trying to wrap his head around what to do, and also who and what Gobert is. I think he’ll get there, eventually. But I do expect some more painful games like last nights until then.

Gobert still deserves what he deserved last year: an All-Star bid, defensive player of the year, all NBA. He has been awesome.
 
Rudy Gobert ranks 27th in offensive rating* this season.
Royce Oneale ranks 31st.
The next closest Jazzman is Mitchell at 140.
The rest of the principle guys fall way down the list.
Bojan 176
Mudiay 219
Ingles 243
Conley 251
Jeff Green 280

incidentally, recent Jazzmen rank:

George Hill 2
Favors 37
Haynerd 47
Hood 61
Burks 73
Rubio 98
Korver 192
Neto 194
Crowder 200

I think the numbers suggest we can stop blaming Rudy. I am curious to compare players in and out of Quins system to see if Quin their Ortg changes when they play for him. Maybe his system makes bad offense--it doesn't look bad to my eyes, but maybe.


* offensive rating of players playing in at least 7 games and averaging at least 12 minutes per game.
 
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mongoose01 said:
I think the blame lands on the players bricking wide open jump shots and floaters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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And this
Jazz are getting good shots. The offense is working. This is a make or miss league. Jazz are missing.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
mellow said:
Rudy Gobert ranks 27th in offensive rating* this season.
Royce Oneale ranks 31st.
The next closest Jazzman is Mitchell at 140.
The rest of the principle guys fall way down the list.
Bojan 176
Mudiay 219
Ingles 243
Conley 251
Jeff Green 280

incidentally, recent Jazzmen rank:

George Hill 2
Favors 37
Haynerd 47
Hood 61
Burks 73
Rubio 98
Korver 192
Neto 194
Crowder 200

I think the numbers suggest we can stop blaming Rudy. I am curious to compare players in and out of Quins system to see if Quin their Ortg changes when they play for him. Maybe his system makes bad offense--it doesn't look bad to my eyes, but maybe.


* offensive rating of players playing in at least 7 games and averaging at least 12 minutes per game.
Click to expand...

They missed Rudy 2 or 3 times last night when it was pretty obvious he should get the ball. Rudy has some limitations, but he's not the problem at all.
 
fishonjazz said:
And this
Jazz are getting good shots. The offense is working. This is a make or miss league. Jazz are missing.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...

We aren't getting good shots right now... Conley and DM need to cut the floater in half... Green and Mudiay need to look to pass more... like a lot more. Green should be told to only shoot 3s or get dunks in fast break... we ran post ups for him when he was being guarded by bigger guys. He got called for a 5 second call... that **** doesn't happen in the NBA. Spot up and dunk is all he should be allowed to do.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
We aren't getting good shots right now... Conley and DM need to cut the floater in half... Green and Mudiay need to look to pass more... like a lot more. Green should be told to only shoot 3s or get dunks in fast break... we ran post ups for him when he was being guarded by bigger guys. He got called for a 5 second call... that **** doesn't happen in the NBA. Spot up and dunk is all he should be allowed to do.
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The only time I've seen that called was when I was playing NBA 2k2 on the Sega Dreamcast nearly 20 years ago and I was posting up with Erik Dampier.
 
infection said:
The only time I've seen that called was when I was playing NBA 2k2 on the Sega Dreamcast nearly 20 years ago and I was posting up with Erik Dampier.
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Who's another guy we could sign and be in front of Bradley on the depth chart.
 
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