Why is Marvin Starting Over Hayward?

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by Borat, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. Borat

    Borat Active Member

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    I am at loss trying to figure this out. With Favors, Kanter, and Burks playing well off the bench, it's not like we are in dire need a strong 6th man. Hayward was starting earlier in the year, and was not doing exceptionally well (albeit not bad either), and was benched. However, Marvin is playing much worse than Hayward was when he was a starter. And Hayward has dramatically improved since, is much younger, and has tons more upside, in addition to already being significantly better than Marvin today. Why does Hayward come off the bench and is averaging less minutes than last year, when his competition is Marvin Williams, and Gordon is producing at similar rate as the guy drafted right after him - all star Paul George? What is the logic behind this?
     
  2. JazzyD

    JazzyD Active Member

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    Speaking to the choir
     
  3. NUMBERICA

    NUMBERICA Well-Known Member

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    You mean playing AT ALL?

    Answer: he's guaranteed pretty big money and is a nice guy. A recipe for success right there.

    For $15 million, I can be nice as ****.
     
    The Norm likes this.
  4. green

    green Well-Known Member

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    Al Jefferson.
     
  5. The Norm

    The Norm Banned

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    The better question is: Why is Marvin playing at all? Hayward isn't the only SF on the team significantly better than him.
     
  6. Borat

    Borat Active Member

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    Both Marvin and Hayward are averaging 26 mins per game. Yet Hayward is significantly better player in every department with higher upside playing the same exact position. Why can't he be given 40 mins per game like Paul George, who has very similar production rate and made all star team, and then give remaining minutes to the inferior player playing the same position - Williams? Isn't this painfully obvious? I know Jazz seem to pick coaches who make rather unorthodox decisions sometimes (which contradict common sense and never lead to anything good), but there has to be some reasoning behind starting Williams and giving him same minutes as Hayward. I just fail to see what it can possibly be.
     
  7. green

    green Well-Known Member

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    Because, even though everything they do is different than what SA does, the Jazz tell us they are developing their young players the same way the San Antonio does.
     
  8. DutchJazzer

    DutchJazzer Well-Known Member

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    if you replace williams with hayward.
    hayward would suck.
    jefferson would suck the life out of hayward
     
  9. DutchJazzer

    DutchJazzer Well-Known Member

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    99% of williams his minutes are shared with jeffersuck
    80% of haywards minutes are without jeffersuck
     
  10. Borat

    Borat Active Member

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    Well, I think Marvin picking up 8-10 mins behind Hayward is not too much of a stretch, after all he is not a complete disaster for a bench player. Yes, grossly overpaid, and makes KOC looks like an idiot for trading an expiring contract for him instead of having extra 8 mil of CAP space next year, especially when we already had Burks who showed promise and needed to be developed, but understandable as an 8-10 minutes back-up. As a starter though over Hayward? I know we are just fans, and coaches are closer to situation, but give me a break here - this is too obvious even if you are not with the team every day. Is there anyone here who really feels Marvin should be starting over Gordon right now and get same minutes?
     
  11. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member

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    Hard to admit Harris for Marvin was a bad trade. That's why. We took a step back on that one.
     
  12. The Norm

    The Norm Banned

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    You misunderstand - I'd rather give the SF minutes that Hayward doesn't play to Demarre. Check the numbers: The guy has been radically better than Marvin this season.
     
  13. trigg3r

    trigg3r Well-Known Member

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    This. The starting lineup's offense is Big Al oriented. When you limit the number of touches Hayward gets, you minimize him as a player.
     
  14. Eenie-Meenie

    Eenie-Meenie Well-Known Member

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    You got that right ... he has been a major disappointment.
     
  15. t.work

    t.work Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't mind seeing Carroll start at this point. I really like Hayward off of the bench.
     
    Chad Feldheimer likes this.
  16. Borat

    Borat Active Member

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    David West averages one less FG attempt per game than Al, and Paul George still gets enough shot opportunities. My point here is that Hayward should start and play nearly entire game, leaving only 8-10 mins behind for Marvin or others at SF position. Yes, some of these minutes will be with Al, but much like Paul George seems to be able to get enough touches around David West (who shoots nearly identical # of shots as Al), I just don't think Hayward's performance would suffer. He needs more minutes, with or without Jefferson on the floor with him. Why these minutes go to Marvin, who stinks regardless who is on the floor with him is still a mystery to me.
     
  17. Borat

    Borat Active Member

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    That is a fair point. I don't know if he was radically better, but this argument can certainly be made. The statement that Hayward is radically better than Marvin and deserves more minutes though I don't believe is even an argument that needs to be debated. It seems so obvious, that everyone but coach Corbin recognizes that. Why is it that when Hayward was not playing all that great as a starter, he was benched for an undersized SG, and Marvin who is playing a lot worse than even Hayward did back then, is not being benched by much improved Hayward, who is playing same position and has same size?
     
  18. The Norm

    The Norm Banned

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    I know it's not the end-all be-all, but just for information purposes, here's each player's PER:

    Gordon Hayward: 16.85
    Demarre Carroll: 16.75
    Marvin Williams: 10.27
     
  19. berkkobe

    berkkobe Active Member

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    why is jefferson start over favors
    why is millsap start over kanter
    why is marvin start over hayward
    why is chucker start over burks
    why is jamaal tinsley start over trey burke
     
  20. Revolution 9

    Revolution 9 Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    because Corbin is an idiot. There is only so long you can try, and get a player going. Marvin just can't bring it game to game.
    He's not a good starter in this league. I've been saying it for months now, make Marvin earn back his minutes.
     

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