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Best Playoff Outcomes for Jazz Trades

underdog said:
"Ainge is intentionally dishonest all the time" - Lol sounds a bit too harsh don’t you think?

"I just don't think we have enough to make the playoffs with Lauri even if we make a lot of trades and acquire a lot of talent" - Not sure how you came up with this, but I got to disagree with you there as well.
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Harsh? I don't think so. I'm just saying I don't expect him to tell the whole truth the whole time, and nor should he. While it would be fun, it wouldn't actually be smart to be 100% transparent all the time.

As far as making the playoffs, yeah I think it will be tough. There are very good teams that missed the playoffs this season, and I see more of the teams who missed the playoffs rising up than playoff teams falling down. MEM, GSW, SAC, and HOU area all better teams than us. None of them made the playoffs, and Wemby will arrive sooner than later. We've drained a lot of our talent and a lot of our PT will go to young guys who aren't likely to be very good even if they prove to be promising.
 
What exactly did the Knicks do to get as good as they are? That model is totally within our reach, and we are starting at a higher point than they did. They just kept hitting singles, drafted well, remained flexible, but, most importantly, stopped doing stupid Knick things.

They had the most borderline all star ever, added an undervalued guy instead of burning everything for the name brand "star," hired a good coach, then just started consolidating and upgrading. We can totally do that and it is an entirely feasible path to success.
 
framer said:
What exactly did the Knicks do to get as good as they are? That model is totally within our reach, and we are starting at a higher point than they did. They just kept hitting singles, drafted well, remained flexible, but, most importantly, stopped doing stupid Knick things.

They had the most borderline all star ever, added an undervalued guy instead of burning everything for the name brand "star," hired a good coach, then just started consolidating and upgrading. We can totally do that and it is an entirely feasible path to success.
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I think it is. Brunson was obviously the big win there.... BUT the west is so much better than the East and I wonder what they would be like in this conference. I actually suggested we might be trying to do the Knicks "build a good playoff team while waiting for the star trade" model but we kinda did the opposite of that with the Tech trade.

Right now I'm firmly team tank. I don't care how we do it but tanking must happen.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think it is. Brunson was obviously the big win there.... BUT the west is so much better than the East and I wonder what they would be like in this conference. I actually suggested we might be trying to do the Knicks "build a good playoff team while waiting for the star trade" model but we kinda did the opposite of that with the Tech trade.

Right now I'm firmly team tank. I don't care how we do it but tanking must happen.
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I liked Tec, but I feel like you can get a Tec back with the pick we gave up to get him at the Trade deadline. Like the Knicks we kinda needed to see what we had in the younger guys and Tec was in the way. In the end I think we will be better served by developing Hendricks at that position and using that asset to puttty in another weakness.

I just worry that we stack up 8 21 and younger guys and still miss on Flagg.

There is a decent chance that we might already have our Brunsen in Sexton. .
 
framer said:
What exactly did the Knicks do to get as good as they are? That model is totally within our reach, and we are starting at a higher point than they did. They just kept hitting singles, drafted well, remained flexible, but, most importantly, stopped doing stupid Knick things.

They had the most borderline all star ever, added an undervalued guy instead of burning everything for the name brand "star," hired a good coach, then just started consolidating and upgrading. We can totally do that and it is an entirely feasible path to success.
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Yes, that's what you do to build a good team. Good coach, good evaluators, good FO, plenty of assets to make moves.

The Jazz are in a good enough position to where, IMO, they have a higher % chance of becoming a contender through that kind of steady improvement (and keeping your core good & young players) vs tearing it down to the studs.
 
framer said:
I liked Tec, but I feel like you can get a Tec back with the pick we gave up to get him at the Trade deadline. Like the Knicks we kinda needed to see what we had in the younger guys and Tec was in the way. In the end I think we will be better served by developing Hendricks at that position and using that asset to puttty in another weakness.

I just worry that we stack up 8 21 and younger guys and still miss on Flagg.

There is a decent chance that we might already have our Brunsen in Sexton. .
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Lauri would be Brunson in this scenario... obviously wildly different games. Knicks stacked tough wing who can shoot on top of tough wing that can shoot and then did it again. We offloaded our one wing we had. He wasn't in the way of anything except the tank.

Taylor could have played if only KO was moved. The fact they elected to move KO, Tech, and were going to move JC if they could (the Knicks chose the Detroit deal) just leads me to believe we aren't really trying to be a serious team immediately. We will see what happens early in the off season. Nothing will shock me. I'm just less about looking at what DA says and looking at what he does.
 
KqWIN said:
Harsh? I don't think so. I'm just saying I don't expect him to tell the whole truth the whole time, and nor should he. While it would be fun, it wouldn't actually be smart to be 100% transparent all the time.

As far as making the playoffs, yeah I think it will be tough. There are very good teams that missed the playoffs this season, and I see more of the teams who missed the playoffs rising up than playoff teams falling down. MEM, GSW, SAC, and HOU area all better teams than us. None of them made the playoffs, and Wemby will arrive sooner than later. We've drained a lot of our talent and a lot of our PT will go to young guys who aren't likely to be very good even if they prove to be promising.
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Well, you said Danny is dishonest "all the time”. And what if "lot of talent" we add is great talent? We still wouldn't make the playoffs?
 
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underdog said:
Well, you said Danny is dishonest "all the time”. And what if "lot of talent" we add is great talent? We still wouldn't make the playoffs?
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I actually think Danny is the most "honest" exec out there in terms that he might actually tell the public the unvarnished truth about something that matters.
 
underdog said:
Well, you said Danny is dishonest "all the time”. And what if "lot of talent" we add is great talent? We still wouldn't make the playoffs?
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He is dishonest all the time, as he should be. I said that when he said "big game hunting", that wasn't to appease the fans or say the franchise is headed towards one direction....the media did the misquote for him. Don't know why that's controversial. In this case, I said he wasn't lying or putting on a front because the media made up a narrative anyways.

As far as adding a lot of talent, yeah I stand by that. The teams that are already struggling to make the playoffs, we're a lot of talent away from being on their level. So if we added a lot of talent we'd still be in that very tough playoff race.
 
KqWIN said:
He is dishonest all the time, as he should be. I said that when he said "big game hunting", that wasn't to appease the fans or say the franchise is headed towards one direction....the media did the misquote for him. Don't know why that's controversial. In this case, I said he wasn't lying or putting on a front because the media made up a narrative anyways.

As far as adding a lot of talent, yeah I stand by that. The teams that are already struggling to make the playoffs, we're a lot of talent away from being on their level. So if we added a lot of talent we'd still be in that very tough playoff race.
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How about great talent? With our assets we might be able to do it when Lauri is still with us.
 
underdog said:
How about great talent? With our assets we might be able to do it when Lauri is still with us.
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Even if we add a great talent, we'd still be in that playoff struggle. I mean, a team with LeBron and AD barely made it. The teams who made it and even the teams that did not make it are way more talented than us. We would need a great talent just to get into that bottom of playoff conversation. I'm sure we could eventually do it, but next year, it would be tough. And if we're not making the playoffs or struggling to do so, we're again in this middle ground. Getting the "great talent" is a challenge on it's own through trade and even with it, we're in a very competitive race. So yeah, the win now option looks very difficult. If you can get an elite talent or enough great talent to truly elevate us beyond a borderline playoff team by all means do it...I don't see it happening.
 
KqWIN said:
Even if we add a great talent, we'd still be in that playoff struggle. I mean, a team with LeBron and AD barely made it. The teams who made it and even the teams that did not make it are way more talented than us. We would need a great talent just to get into that bottom of playoff conversation. I'm sure we could eventually do it, but next year, it would be tough. And if we're not making the playoffs or struggling to do so, we're again in this middle ground. Getting the "great talent" is a challenge on it's own through trade and even with it, we're in a very competitive race. So yeah, the win now option looks very difficult. If you can get an elite talent or enough great talent to truly elevate us beyond a borderline playoff team by all means do it...I don't see it happening.
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And because of a dumb mistake years ago... if we dabbled into the play in group we likely lose a pick in the 11-16 range instead of getting a top 7 or so pick. So stack that cost onto whatever you traded to get said star.
 
framer said:
What exactly did the Knicks do to get as good as they are? That model is totally within our reach, and we are starting at a higher point than they did. They just kept hitting singles, drafted well, remained flexible, but, most importantly, stopped doing stupid Knick things.

They had the most borderline all star ever, added an undervalued guy instead of burning everything for the name brand "star," hired a good coach, then just started consolidating and upgrading. We can totally do that and it is an entirely feasible path to success.
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Key part of the Knicks success is getting into the Eastern conference. How do we pull that off?
 
KqWIN said:
Even if we add a great talent, we'd still be in that playoff struggle. I mean, a team with LeBron and AD barely made it. The teams who made it and even the teams that did not make it are way more talented than us. We would need a great talent just to get into that bottom of playoff conversation. I'm sure we could eventually do it, but next year, it would be tough. And if we're not making the playoffs or struggling to do so, we're again in this middle ground. Getting the "great talent" is a challenge on it's own through trade and even with it, we're in a very competitive race. So yeah, the win now option looks very difficult. If you can get an elite talent or enough great talent to truly elevate us beyond a borderline playoff team by all means do it...I don't see it happening.
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So you changed your mind. Now you say we can get to the playoffs without blowing this thing up. That’s great. But there’s no point speculating how well we would do in the playoffs because we don’t know what pieces we would’ve added and what the other teams would have next season, and the season after that, and the season after that, and so on.
 
underdog said:
So you changed your mind. Now you say we can get to the playoffs without blowing this thing up. That’s great. But there’s no point speculating how well we would do in the playoffs because we don’t know what pieces we would’ve added and what the other teams would have next season, and the season after that, and the season after that, and so on.
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Excuse me? When did I change my mind? lol. Of course I think we could eventually get there, I was talking about next season which is why I outlined the playoff picture for next season. If that wasn’t clear, that’s what I meant.

I think you absolutely should speculate. If you want to make a plan to do something, you should speculate on the feasibility of the plan and the expected outcomes.
 
KqWIN said:
Excuse me? When did I change my mind? lol. Of course I think we could eventually get there, I was talking about next season which is why I outlined the playoff picture for next season. If that wasn’t clear, that’s what I meant.

I think you absolutely should speculate. If you want to make a plan to do something, you should speculate on the feasibility of the plan and the expected outcomes.
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Yes we all speculate sometimes, but often it has little value because it is speculation. You talked about next season, but because developing a contender takes more than one season, we obviously need to look beyond that. I hope next season (or this summer) we try to find a star-level player who stays with us several years, build our depth, and develop our young players. Then we keep doing the same until we're at a contender level. Danny has enough bargaining chips. I'm not against the full tank route as such, but knowing that it is also a low-probability route (like all routes to championship), I'd rather see we try the first route before we consider blowing it up and plunging into many long years of losing basketball.
 
framer said:
I actually think Danny is the most "honest" exec out there in terms that he might actually tell the public the unvarnished truth about something that matters.
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Hard to know what the unvarnished truth is from Danny since he will rarely talk to the Media. I heard the talking heads on 1280 say that there has never been a FO that was so inaccessible and they had lots of examples.
 
framer said:
What exactly did the Knicks do to get as good as they are? That model is totally within our reach, and we are starting at a higher point than they did.
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The Knicks model is based on being in NYC and being the Knicks. Lake the Lakers, they can attract great players via the free agency: they did it with both Randle and Brunson. "This model is totally within our reach" only if you think that star players prefer going to Utah over other teams. Remember the famous quote: "You go play in Utah; I don't wanna." ?
 
jazznik said:
The Knicks model is based on being in NYC and being the Knicks. Lake the Lakers, they can attract great players via the free agency: they did it with both Randle and Brunson. "This model is totally within our reach" only if you think that star players prefer going to Utah over other teams. Remember the famous quote: "You go play in Utah; I don't wanna." ?
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Meh, they got those players with capspace. And, if I remember correctly, because they struck out on their primary targets. Although Brunson and Randle had suiters, they were hardly the cream of the free agent crop. There has been many times in the past 5 years that you could have grabbed Randle from the Knicks for a pick and matching salary. We groused because we thought he might be a throw in in the possible Don deal. The Knicks just put players around Randle to finally make him a winner.

The Knicks true success has been on turning their late round picks into a consolidation of better players. Just don't bust out on your picks (especially when you have as many as we do) and we will be fine. Need a lot more Keyontes and fewer Ochais (although we didn't pick him.)
 
jazznik said:
The Knicks model is based on being in NYC and being the Knicks. Lake the Lakers, they can attract great players via the free agency: they did it with both Randle and Brunson. "This model is totally within our reach" only if you think that star players prefer going to Utah over other teams. Remember the famous quote: "You go play in Utah; I don't wanna." ?
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Brunson wasn't a star player when he went to new York. Neither was randle. Neither player had been an all star when new York got them.

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