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Best Playoff Outcomes for Jazz Trades

jazznik said:
This Tony Jones?



The same Tony Jones who kept saying that the Jazz want the 2024 pick to convey and will not tank ...up until the beginning of the most blatant tank in the Jazz history?
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Sir you know the Jazz tried to win games at first....
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Iove how people act like backup centers are easy to find and Tristan Thompson is playing in the playoffs
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Not exactly the biggest gotcha when he's only playing bc Jarrett Allen is hurt. 3rd center isn't a position I would care too much about when building a roster, especially when options #1 and #2 are Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley. It's unfortunate that Allen is hurt, but you don't exactly plan for a key player to be hurt bc you are probably screwed anyways.

Don't see you saying anything about Tillman or Kornet either, who were very easy to acquire.
 
KqWIN said:
Not exactly the biggest gotcha when he's only playing bc Jarrett Allen is hurt. 3rd center isn't a position I would care too much about when building a roster, especially when options #1 and #2 are Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley. It's unfortunate that Allen is hurt, but you don't exactly plan for a key player to be hurt bc you are probably screwed anyways.

Don't see you saying anything about Tillman or Kornet either, who were very easy to acquire.
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Dean Wade who toggles between the 2 bigs is also out.
 
KqWIN said:
Not exactly the biggest gotcha when he's only playing bc Jarrett Allen is hurt. 3rd center isn't a position I would care too much about when building a roster, especially when options #1 and #2 are Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley. It's unfortunate that Allen is hurt, but you don't exactly plan for a key player to be hurt bc you are probably screwed anyways.

Don't see you saying anything about Tillman or Kornet either, who were very easy to acquire.
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They were developed and not easy.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
They were developed and not easy.
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Tillman wasn't developed by the Celtics. They got a ready made backup C for a couple of distant seconds, that's how difficult it is. Any team could have traded for Tillman. Kornet you could say he was developed, but so what....that's one way to fill a position and the Celtics did it. Anytime a team successfully does something, it's an example that it's not as difficult.

OTOH, Tristain Thompson playing is in notndicative of the difficulties of getting a backup C. TT is not a backup C and was never intended to be one. TT playing is the result of Allen being injured and the Cavs not planning on Allen being injured, why would they. It's not like they were expecting to need a backup C and TT was the best they can do. They were expecting Allen and Mobley to play 100% of those minutes, so they went the opted to go with a veteran presence in a role that they expected to get zero minutes of actual playoff basketball.
 
MT Steve said:
What concerns me deeply is that not a single thing the Jazz have done in the last couple years gives me any reason to believe they appropriately value defense.

Drafting Taylor Hendricks was maybe the closest thing, and even with that, the reports were he was 9th on their big board and they took him begrudgingly.

Trading for John Collins and playing him at the 5 all season makes me think they don't really get it. It took Kris Dunn an eternity to get adequate playing time despite having an obvious large positive impact thanks to his defense.

Feels like an FO that is happy to sacrifice a mile of defense for an inch more of offense.
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Ainge was an outside hire and Ryan kinda feels like a Twitter casual. I don't think either of them fully appreciated what Rudy brought and the level to which he brought it. Your last sentence encapsulates that and I feel too many people don't appreciate weight and scale. We pivot to this idea of not being able to win in the league today unless you're following this "dynamic wing" model where you have a few guys with offensive versatility. It's like doing a side gig. You've got your main job that gives you a nice base pay and gives you all your insurance and benefits. Then you go out and do a side-gig at 1099 where your pay per time ratio is significantly larger than your main gig. You get frustrated with your main gig because you feel like it should provide all the "oomph" and feel-goods that your 1099 does, so you quit that. Then you realize there isn't enough 1099 work to really sustain you and now you've gotta figure out benefits and insurance and the next thing you know you've gotta list the house for sale. It was really your W2 that was opening the door to that 1099 being so awesome. Without the W2 the 1099 is... not so hot.
 
Regarding the Brandon Ingram discussion that was a few days ago, I can't say I've closely watched him over the past year or two, nor did I watch any of his playoffs this year so I'd qualify these comments, but Brandon Ingram is realistically the ceiling of the caliber of player we could land in a trade with our assets. Unless the plan is to use all the picks we have to try to find all-star caliber players, I don't think you're going to find a player with less flaws than someone like an Ingram. That's just the reality. You can balk at moving for someone like him, but if you're imagining "keeping the powder dry" for someone better, you're going to be confronted with the same reality DL was when he was up against a salary-cap clock and Conley was the only man on the table. If people will recall, we as fans had that salary ear-marked for the likes of Kawhi and Klay when they hit free agency that year.

Narratives change fast. What was the narrative on 30 year old Jimmy Butler? Then he ended up being regarding as perhaps the best player to have on your team after a good playoff run. What's the narrative on him now? What was the narrative on AD? What's that narrative now? Remember all the hype on Jaylen Brown, then it flipped to him not being able to dribble? The fluctuating narrative on Jayson Tatum? What's going to happen to the narrative on Jokic after this series? Could people have envisioned a year ago the narrative switch on Brunson? Or how about the narrative flip on Lauri?

This isn't to say that every narrative can flip. I think it's about being able to see a certain baseline of talent that gives you enough to work with to make a bet on. Ingram has a significant amount of baseline talent. In the right situation, this is a guy that would go from everyone not paying attention to, to believing he's the exact prototype of the kind of guy you need, given the right situation and a modicum of post-season success. We're concerned about creation and Lauri being more of an ideal release valve. Ingram would be a pretty great guy to fit into an offensive scheme where he has people like Lauri and Keyonte (or at least what people think Keyonte can be) to throw to. This guy consistently averages more than 5 assists per game... and he's playing with Zion. Imagine him being able to dish out to Lauri with range or in any other circumstance. It's a much better fit than Zion.

You could run a pretty good defensive front court with Ingram, Hendricks and Lauri.
 
KOC did a draft pod today with a Cleveland sports fan and they were very negative on the Cavs future. They don't think Garland is a worthy #2 at all and they way overpaid him.
 
Is the Nuggets "dynasty" over now?

KCP has a player option if he opts out the Nuggets roster will be extremely expensive. They already have depth issues. The young guys they added like Strawther never saw extended rotation time. MPJ was awful in a series you'd think he'd be valuable in.

What do they do from here? The new CBA is making it extremely tough to keep your team together
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Is the Nuggets "dynasty" over now?

KCP has a player option if he opts out the Nuggets roster will be extremely expensive. They already have depth issues. The young guys they added like Strawther never saw extended rotation time. MPJ was awful in a series you'd think he'd be valuable in.

What do they do from here? The new CBA is making it extremely tough to keep your team together
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They will be in the picture as long as Jokic and Murray are still really good players but the west is brutal right now and only getting better. Next year I expect the griz to be firmly in that top 3 conversation and the rockets and spurs may not be far behind. For the nugs to stick around the top of the west though over the next few years they really need 2 of Strawther, Picket, Tyson and their 1st rd pick this year to become reliable role players.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Is the Nuggets "dynasty" over now?

KCP has a player option if he opts out the Nuggets roster will be extremely expensive. They already have depth issues. The young guys they added like Strawther never saw extended rotation time. MPJ was awful in a series you'd think he'd be valuable in.

What do they do from here? The new CBA is making it extremely tough to keep your team together
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It will be interesting to see what they do. I don't know how long they are willing to be a luxury tax team.

That said, I can't imagine it will be that hard to retool around Jokic.
 
sip said:
They will be in the picture as long as Jokic and Murray are still really good players but the west is brutal right now and only getting better. Next year I expect the griz to be firmly in that top 3 conversation and the rockets and spurs may not be far behind. For the nugs to stick around the top of the west though over the next few years they really need 2 of Strawther, Picket, Tyson and their 1st rd pick this year to become reliable role players.
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They have smartly filled in the pipeline with prospects that should be able to help them. They will go from the team to beat to a contender but whether they win another title it will depend on how those guys develop, what kind of luck they get, and if they can get on a heater.

I think they keep KCP and might look to move MPJ as that is the biggest cap issue.
 
infection said:
Ainge was an outside hire and Ryan kinda feels like a Twitter casual. I don't think either of them fully appreciated what Rudy brought and the level to which he brought it. Your last sentence encapsulates that and I feel too many people don't appreciate weight and scale. We pivot to this idea of not being able to win in the league today unless you're following this "dynamic wing" model where you have a few guys with offensive versatility. It's like doing a side gig. You've got your main job that gives you a nice base pay and gives you all your insurance and benefits. Then you go out and do a side-gig at 1099 where your pay per time ratio is significantly larger than your main gig. You get frustrated with your main gig because you feel like it should provide all the "oomph" and feel-goods that your 1099 does, so you quit that. Then you realize there isn't enough 1099 work to really sustain you and now you've gotta figure out benefits and insurance and the next thing you know you've gotta list the house for sale. It was really your W2 that was opening the door to that 1099 being so awesome. Without the W2 the 1099 is... not so hot.
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The thing about “tanking” and trading Don/Rudy is that you will always get patted on the back for it. You have this unlimited amount of plausible deniability because you can always say, “we weren’t going to win anyways”. Even if Don and Rudy both win championships on their own, we will still hear that it was impossible to win with them in UTA.

When tanking, you shift the expectations from winning (which is difficult) to trading good players for assets (which is easy). But you do so under the guise of trying to win a championship.

I don’t think there has ever been a trade where the team trading a player in or to tank has been viewed poorly when it happens.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Of course Cleveland/Minny losing would be great as it would cause changes that could result in worse future outcomes and just generally signals their future might be worse than projected.
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Yet you’ve been rooting for the Twolves like your life depends on it.

At this point it’s hard to take what you say seriously anymore.

- iphon
 
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