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The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

Keefe said:
Struggled since Sloan? Quin got us the 1 seed. We won playoff series with him.
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We also lost a bunch of playoff series that we had no business losing with Quin. I think we were a fake 1 seed similar to how the hawks were a fake 1 seed a while back. Never an actual contender like most 1 seeds are. Once we got into the playoffs and teams were able to gameplan for us is when Quin and his system were completely exposed.
 
sip said:
We also lost a bunch of playoff series that we had no business losing with Quin. I also think we were a fake 1 seed similar to how the hawks were a fake 1 seed a while back. Never an actual contender like most 1 seeds are. Once we got into the playoffs and teams were able to gameplan for us is when Quin and his system were completely exposed.
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Oh geez. Stop. We lost to the Clips the year we were the 1 seed because of roster construction and injuries. That’s beyond Quin’s scope of responsibility. Other years we lost…like vs the Mavs and Brunson and Doncic. Yeah, maybe we just weren’t as good
 
Keefe said:
Oh geez. Stop. We lost to the Clips the year we were the 1 seed because of roster construction and injuries. That’s beyond Quin’s scope of responsibility. Other years we lost…like vs the Mavs and Brunson and Doncic. Yeah, maybe we just weren’t as good
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Yeah, definitely to an extent. The Jazz/Quin/DL built an insane offense/defense that didnt have quite enough versatility or defensive footspeed. I wouldnt say it was beyond Quin's responsibility, but I get the idea of sticking to your guns when your guns were so incredibly potent all year and during the playoffs.
 
There was a mic'd up segment during the series against the Mavs that really stood out to me.

Rudy was on the bench begging his teammates to communicate on defense, and Quin Snyder made a "calm down" sort of gesture before saying that it's important to communicate on offense as well.

Couple that with the narrative out of Minnesota about how Gobert holds teammates accountable on defense and how they love it and fully buy into it, and it makes me bitter.
 
Keefe said:
Oh geez. Stop. We lost to the Clips the year we were the 1 seed because of roster construction and injuries. That’s beyond Quin’s scope of responsibility. Other years we lost…like vs the Mavs and Brunson and Doncic. Yeah, maybe we just weren’t as good
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Come on man you knew you were going to get called out on this crap.

2020- Blew 3-1 series lead to the nugs
2021- Up 2-0 over the clips with homecourt advantage. Clips tie the series up 2-2 but lose Kawhi in game 4. Jazz come home and lose game 5. In game 6 the jazz are up 22 at halftime and proceed to get outscored in the 2nd half by 34 points.
2022- Luka Doncic pulls his hamstring just prior to the series and misses the first 3 games. The mavs take 2 out of those 3 games without Doncic.
 
sip said:
Come on man you knew you were going to get called out on this crap.

2020- Blew 3-1 series lead to the nugs
2021- Up 2-0 over the clips with homecourt advantage. Clips tie the series up 2-2 but lose Kawhi in game 4. Jazz come home and lose game 5. In game 6 the jazz are up 22 at halftime and proceed to get outscored in the 2nd half by 34 points.
2022- Luka Doncic pulls his hamstring just prior to the series and misses the first 3 games. The mavs take 2 out of those 3 games without Doncic.
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**** man. Did you really have to write all that out? Tear open old wounds? Just ruined my whole day. That is some PTSD inducing ****.

Hello darkness my old friend.



Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk
 
fishonjazz said:
**** man. Did you really have to write all that out? Tear open old wounds? Just ruined my whole day. That is some PTSD inducing ****.

Hello darkness my old friend.



Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk
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Haha, sorry bro. I had to bring him back to reality though.
 
MT Steve said:
There was a mic'd up segment during the series against the Mavs that really stood out to me.

Rudy was on the bench begging his teammates to communicate on defense, and Quin Snyder made a "calm down" sort of gesture before saying that it's important to communicate on offense as well.

Couple that with the narrative out of Minnesota about how Gobert holds teammates accountable on defense and how they love it and fully buy into it, and it makes me bitter.
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This whole FO and coaching staff were embarrassing enablers of the divas on the perimeter. How can you shut up your defensive stalwart, the guy who was instrumental and in the basis of all your winning in the last decade, when he was begging them to play defense and give effort? There is another thread going on right now about the biggest mistake by the Jazz FO. Maybe it's not the biggest one, but it's definitely one of the most infuriating ones I can think of in the past decades. Instead of standing right behind Gobert and telling Mitchell and Clarkson and the rest of the "scoring is all I care for" gang to shut up and follow suit, they undermined him publicly. This is the moment I knew that team with that leadership had no chance in hell for anything serious. You are what you do and instead of demanding defensive effort when Gobert asked for it, they scoffed at it and the results are the most predictable thing you can expect - the poor defensive effort and focus not just continued in the playoffs but were put on even bigger display.
 
stitches said:
This whole FO and coaching staff were embarrassing enablers of the divas on the perimeter. How can you shut up your defensive stalwart, the guy who was instrumental and in the basis of all your winning in the last decade, when he was begging them to play defense and give effort? There is another thread going on right now about the biggest mistake by the Jazz FO. Maybe it's not the biggest one, but it's definitely one of the most infuriating ones I can think of in the past decades. Instead of standing right behind Gobert and telling Mitchell and Clarkson and the rest of the "scoring is all I care for" gang to shut up and follow suit, they undermined him publicly. This is the moment I knew that team with that leadership had no chance in hell for anything serious. You are what you do and instead of demanding defensive effort when Gobert asked for it, they scoffed at it and the results are the most predictable thing you can expect - the poor defensive effort and focus not just continued in the playoffs but were put on even bigger display.
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Ironically, this makes me remember Jimmy Butler's tenure with the Timberwolves with Wiggins and Towns. He was ran out of town for his attitude....but that same mentality is glorified as "Heat Culture". You want the latter. Maybe guys like Butler and Gobert are like 10% too demanding, but you want a team culture where it's ok to be too demanding. When Gobert tells Mitchell and Clarkson to play defense, their response was "how dare you". I'm sure they had this conversation a million times in the locker room and it was the same response. If Gobert had to tell Ant to play defense, I'd bet that Ant would say "hell yeah". Thing is, Ant is a true competitor and will rise to the occasion on his own.

The Don/Rudy Jazz was a top to bottom failure. The FO, the coaching staff, the players.....they would rather get embarrassed over and over in the same way before they sought to address their mistakes and improve. They were content to be stubborn losers year after year.
 
KqWIN said:
Ironically, this makes me remember Jimmy Butler's tenure with the Timberwolves with Wiggins and Towns. He was ran out of town for his attitude....but that same mentality is glorified as "Heat Culture". You want the latter. Maybe guys like Butler and Gobert are like 10% too demanding, but you want a team culture where it's ok to be too demanding. When Gobert tells Mitchell and Clarkson to play defense, their response was "how dare you". I'm sure they had this conversation a million times in the locker room and it was the same response. If Gobert had to tell Ant to play defense, I'd bet that Ant would say "hell yeah". Thing is, Ant is a true competitor and will rise to the occasion on his own.

The Don/Rudy Jazz was a top to bottom failure. The FO, the coaching staff, the players.....they would rather get embarrassed over and over in the same way before they sought to address their mistakes and improve. They were content to be stubborn losers year after year.
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There is definitely something grating about the way Gobert is in his interpersonal relationships it seems and it seems to rub some people the wrong way. I can see him being ..."10% too demanding" as you put it, but this by no means should be the bigger problem when those sieves on the perimeter were coasting and living on Gobert's back for years and years as part of one of the best defenses in the league. I'd take "10% too demanding" over zero responsibility and accountability any day of the week, 365 days a year. For whatever it's worth, Edwards might actually be just as demanding but also having the "hoopers" respect so when Gobert demands and Edwards demands it hits differently and his teammates actually value that push towards excellence rather than taking it as some sort of personal affront.
 
stitches said:
There is definitely something grating about the way Gobert is in his interpersonal relationships it seems and it seems to rub some people the wrong way. I can see him being ..."10% too demanding" as you put it, but this by no means should be the bigger problem when those sieves on the perimeter were coasting and living on Gobert's back for years and years as part of one of the best defenses in the league. I'd take "10% too demanding" over zero responsibility and accountability any day of the week, 365 days a year. For whatever it's worth, Edwards might actually be just as demanding but also having the "hoopers" respect so when Gobert demands and Edwards demands it hits differently and his teammates actually value that push towards excellence rather than taking it as some sort of personal affront.
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Right, you need culture to be open to this type of mentality. I think too much was made out of them being "friends". I doubt Edwards is best friends with Rudy, he may not even sit by him at lunch. It doesn't really matter because they want to win the same amount. Don had a lot of besties on the Jazz throughout the years, they also wanted to win the same amount and that was our problem.
 
A big bogeyman in the Quin years was his "system" . Conley alluded to that when he was traded for. Another player that was mistified by it was Derrick Alston. He was only a training camp and Stars player but said the offense and defense was confusing as @#$%. Alston played four years of college and is a GLeague coach's son. You would think Quin would have simplified it, but he couldn't because he was the smartest guy in the room.
 
Can ace or Flagg be as good as ant? I hope ant never goes to the lakers or ill have to stop liking him
 
Shad said:
Can ace or Flagg be as good as ant? I hope ant never goes to the lakers or ill have to stop liking him
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Odds are neither guy will be as good as Ant. Ant is really really special on both ends of the court. We all know about his offense but defensively when he decides to lock in he is really special. He moves his feet so well and with his strength he can just bully guys. Similarly to Jordan and Wade when they really wanted to lock guys down.
 
stitches said:
There is definitely something grating about the way Gobert is in his interpersonal relationships it seems and it seems to rub some people the wrong way. I can see him being ..."10% too demanding" as you put it, but this by no means should be the bigger problem when those sieves on the perimeter were coasting and living on Gobert's back for years and years as part of one of the best defenses in the league. I'd take "10% too demanding" over zero responsibility and accountability any day of the week, 365 days a year. For whatever it's worth, Edwards might actually be just as demanding but also having the "hoopers" respect so when Gobert demands and Edwards demands it hits differently and his teammates actually value that push towards excellence rather than taking it as some sort of personal affront.
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I also think there were some dynamics here of Rudy being here first and then Don kinda stealing the spotlight. There was some push and pull that neither guy fully embraced the other. Ant is just no BS (for good or bad) so I can see him being cool with Rudy calling stuff out. Kyle took a swipe at him last year so this stuff can get spicy for sure. Its about how you respond. With us both Rudy and Don kinda shut down in different ways vs. having the fight and working through it.

I'm sure it would really fuel Donny's desire to bail on the Cavs if Rudy won a title. Kinda a Shaq/Kobe but in a more passive aggressive mode thing.
 
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