Current Players Draft First Round: Jeffrey32 vs. Framer

[Siro]

Jeffrey32's Team:

Jrue Holiday / Ty Lawson
Paul George / Jordan Clarkson
Kawhi Leonard / Mike Dunleavy
Zach Randolph / Nikola Mirotic
Andre Drummond / Tristan Thompson

vs.

Framer's Team:

Jeff Teague / Ricky Rubio
Danny Green / Aaron Afflolo
Rudy Gay / Arron Gordon
LeMarcus Aldridge / Amir Johnson
Rudy Gobert / Robin Lopez


Framer's Case:

Defense

Let's be clear, my opponent's team is set to Bully the other team inside. When faced with a team with an average to weak

inside or rebounding presence, they would tend to dominate. Unfortunately for them, my team is NOT that team. They are

getting a solid 6'11 guy with the the 6th best rim protection percentage in the league, and an unholy demon from Hell who

would be licking his chops at the inside-outside imbalance of Jeff's team. There is simply not enough room for Drummond,

Randolph, and Leonard to operate inside while being hounded by the length of Gobert and Aldridge. If there is any foul

trouble, Robin Lopez doesn't suck and can provide needed minutes.

Now you may be thinking that "So what? the strength of Jeff's team lies in his swingmen." Yes, but take away the drive to

the inside and the front of the rim, Leonard becomes pretty one dimensional. He hates taking midrange shots. Additionally,

when he takes a three, it is almost always a corner three making it much easier to bother without the Spurs passing game to

open that shot for him.

Close off the middle, Leonard can be defended by Gay. If there is any problem at all, Afflalo is more than capable of taking

over the assignment.

Next, we have Paul George. Let's get something out of the way, Paul George tends to be overrated offensively and was

starting to degrade even before he hurt his leg.

I'm confident that Danny Green, one of the best wing defenders in the league, can stay in front of George, and limit his

effectiveness, especially as Green is backstopped pretty well by Gobert and Aldridge.

Also keep in mind that if any of my defenders get in foul trouble, I have Aaron Gordon in the wings.

Finally, we have Jrue Holiday. Understand that Jeff Teague is one of the best point guard defenders in the league.

As of the all star break, Teague was allowing an opposing field goal percentage of 38.4% which was better than fellow east

all stars:

John Wall: 42.4%
Kyle Lowry: 43.2%
Kyrie Irving: 44.7%


Teague is also elite at defending the small end of the pick and roll ties for 2nd among point guards.

Jrue Holiday isn't elite at pretty much anything.

Offense:

I probably have the best offensive spacing of any team in the tournament with obscenely great low, mid, and high options,

paired with a tremendous slasher AND an all star distributing and scoring point trained in the Spurs style.

Rudy Gobert. (8.4 pts, 9.5 reb) Has issues sometimes offensively, but he will be single covered by Andre Drummond in

space with an all star point to deliver him the ball. That isn't going to go well for Drummond who is mediocre in protecting

the rim. There will be no help for Drummond. Expect a lot of saluting.

LeMarcus Aldridge. (23.4 pts. 10.3 reb) Can't be defended without a double team by anyone else other than his

teammate. Who are you gonna leave in order to double Aldridge? Gobert, Gay, or Danny Green? Please, oh, please leave Danny

Green.

Rudy Gay. (21.1 pts, 5.9 reb) Simply an elite scorer. There is a chance that Leonard can hold him back, but not

totally, and it would take Leonard out of the rest of the defense. If you switch Leonard onto Aldridge, it makes things

harder for Aldridge (but only marginally) and it means you are defending Gay with Zach Randolph or Mike Dunleavy, Jr. Good

luck with that.

Here is what Gay does WITH Corbin and WITHOUT Corbin. Corbin will NOT be my coach:

Danny Green. (11.7 pts, 4.2 reb) Will get open with my spacing and WILL make you pay from three. Probably no better

option to have out at the three line in a high pressure game. Also, can get to the hoop. . .

https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/D_p3Zxp2abWhrxLQNbIg4yTCk5s=/cdn0.vox-

cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3706926/DannyGreen2014-15OShotChartNBASavant.0.png

Jeff Teague. (15.9 pts. 7asts) Runs the "Spurs type" offense better than anyone else in the League. Can pass, drive, and

shoot. There is not a chance in Hell that Jrue Holliday slows him down with the weapons he has at his disposal.

Also, hella lot of rebounding from this starting unit.

Jeff's team is good, but mine is better constructed with more current talent.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Crazy even matchup. Will have to think.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Hmm this is another tough one for me. I love the George and Leonard wing combo but I also really like the Aldridge Gobert combo. Pg's are kind of a wash they are fairly close in talent level. I guess it comes down to the other two spots are Green and Gay better or more helpful than Randolph and Drummund. Leaning towards Jeffrey ill think about this one more though.

 

[fishonjazz]

Tough matchup.
Gotta go with framer though

 

[Jeffrey32]

Pretty pictures Framer, but definitely not a better team! He only has to players that can shoot consistently on the whole team. My players are battle tested with a mix of youth, all-stars, and proven veteran leadership. These guys have been in wars in the deep playoffs… most of Framer’s team has never even been in the playoffs or not been the star. If this is who would win in a single game or a 7-game series, I would take my team. Honestly, I don’t even think it is close.
WINGS
Paul and Kawhi are the two best two-way wing players in the entire league not named Lebron and they are both on the same team. Prior to his injury, George was considered a top five player in this league. A healthy George, which he is expected to be this season, would be the best player on the court in this series and Kawhi (the reigning DPOY) would be the second best. Usually the team with the 2 best players win the series, but I am happy to elaborate more.
My wings would deep fry his wings. Gay has never really won in this league and has been an iso-chucker most of his career. Memphis didn’t become a championship caliber team until they traded him. A team with Gay would not go far into the playoffs as most of his career has proven. Green is a solid player, but not an All Star. You can see by his contract versus Kawhi’s the value that Kawhi brings to the Spurs vs. Green. Kawhi is now the best player on the Spurs and Green is probably the sixth. Kawhi is DPOY and Finals MVP and a Tier 1 SF. Green is a Tier 3 (ok maybe Tier 2) SG.
BIGS
The most exciting match-up is Gobert vs. Drummond. These are the two best young centers in the game. Both are scratching the surface of their potential. Given that this is a Jazz board, Gobert would be favored, but, with Greg Monroe gone, Drummond should show a huge jump in his performance at both ends of the floor, similar to Gobert after Kanter was traded. Drummond is already one of the game's best offensive rebounders, with anticipation and athleticism that nobody can match, and if Gobert goes for a block against a driving Holiday, Lawson, George, or Leonard, Drummond will be there for a dish-dunk or offensive put back. Size-wise he also matches up against Gobert extremely well and takes away many of the advantages Gobert has against other centers.
Zach Randolph is the perfect big to play with Drummond. First, Randolph plays next to the best center in basketball in real life and would know how to play with Drummond, unlike Monroe and Smith. Second, the lane would not be crowded, as Framer suggests, as Randolph shoots over 60% from 10-16 feet away. He does not spread the floor out to three-point land but does it well enough to make room for Drummond and drives. Most importantly, he remains one of the best rebounders in basketball. In spite of being 33, his game has not changed. Last season, he averaged 16/10, which is in almost perfect line with his career numbers of 17/9. Beyond his on the court consistently he is the vocal and emotional leader of his team. Framer does not have a player to fill that role and back it up, which is crucial in clutch games and crunch time.
POINTS
My tandem of Jrue and Ty would beat Teague and Rubio. Over their careers, Ty has outplayed Teague head to head and he is not even my starter. I started Jrue because of his length on the defensive end and head-to-head v. Teague, they have been pretty even. Therefore, Ty brings in fire, speed, and fresh legs off the bench. Lawson dominates Rubio in head-to-head (19 v. 9 ppg; 5 wins-1 loss), so much that the T-wolves probably regret trading Lawson on Draft Night. Ty may be the piece to get Houston over the hump and forms a nice threesome with Harden and Howard. He has a chip on his shoulder and wants to get past his issues and prove doubters wrong. Jrue is similar as he is finally healthy and wants to prove that he can be the all-star caliber PG to help take Davis and the Pels to the next level.
BENCH
My bench is perfectly constructed with speed (Lawson), scoring (Clarkson), veteran leadership (Dunleavy), shooting (Mirotic), and hustle and muscle (Thompson). In the playoffs last season (12 games), Dunleavy, started all 12, averaged 11 points, and shot 49% from 3 and 95% from the line. During the season, he shot 40% from 3. Clarkson and Mirotic were both All Rookie 1st team and set to be even bigger additions to their teams this season. Keep in mind Clarkson, only started in 38 games (only played in 59) and was All 1st Rookie team. He can play either guard spot. Mirotic is the prototypical Stretch 4 which brings diversity to the line-up and is my super floor spreader. Thompson proved in the playoffs that he can truly play at the highest levels in the league. He was a beast on the boards and one of the few consistent role players Lebron had night in and night out. He can play either 4 or 5 and not lose a beat on the boards for this team, when Z-Bo or Drummond need a breath.
Framer’s bench in my opinion is rather average and lacks a diversity in skillsets. Framer’s team can barely shoot. None of his back-up bigs (or back-up PG) can score the ball or shoot with any consistency. The bigs are basically the same player in three sizes, L, XL, XXL. Only one on the bench that can shoot is AA. I hope Afflalo has a good season with the Knicks, as I like him as a player, but his numbers took a big dip last season, the worst in the last 5 seasons of his career. Rubio still can’t shoot and is oft-injured so he either won’t play in this fictional game or my can leave him any time to double Gay, Aldridge, etc. There is no one on my team with maybe the exception of Thompson, who you can leave for a double team.

 

[♪alt13]

Wow. This one is tuff.

 

[♪alt13]

This one would be decided in the 4th quarter of the seventh game. So I'm gunna vote for Jeffrey32 cuz he's behind. I really think this series is a coin toss.

 

[framer]

OK, first of all, you don't get to claim prime Paul George. He has a lot to show to prove that is who he is. He is certainly NOT the second best player in the series. He was declining, as shown with pictures, BEFORE he broke his leg. He was shooting 46% at the rim. That isn't going to get it done in this series. The bottom fell out of his three point shooting as well. To claim that he is a top 5 player right now is ridiculous. There is a reason he fell to where you picked him in the draft. I'm not sure that he is a better player than Gordon Hayward currently.

Kawai might have been the best player on the Spurs, but he isn't anymore. Just wait until you see what happens when you add Aldridge into the Spurs system. Aldridge hasn't played in a system that is focused on getting him the ball and that is going to be what happens on the Spurs this year. Kawai's game is dunking and hitting the corner 3 which are system shots. You don't have that system in place with your current roster, especially playing against my defense.

Also, beer is half off at my stadium lessening whatever advantage you might think you have at point guard. . .

 

[Siro]

^^ Wrong about Kawhi, who is an INCREDIBLE perimeter defender and one of the most versatile offensive players in the NBA. A top ten player in my book.

 

[LogGrad98]

Downplaying Kawhi won't get you anywhere, that is easy to see through. I think the wing and back court matchup favors jeffrey. But I also think Gobert is going to explode this season from a defensive stand point and I wish jeffrey's team luck getting any layups. I have always thought that adding Aldridge to Gobert would be an incredibly good move. That pairing alone is enough to carry scrubs, but add in solid players like Gay and Green and that is a tough matchup.

About the only pairing I could see taking out Gobert and Aldridge would be putting powerhouse two way players at both front court positions, like Griffin and Howard. Now that would be a duo for the ages. If only they were together on some team in this tournament. Hmmm.

 

[Jeffrey32]

OK, first of all, you don't get to claim prime Paul George. He has a lot to show to prove that is who he is. He is certainly NOT the second best player in the series. He was declining, as shown with pictures, BEFORE he broke his leg. He was shooting 46% at the rim. That isn't going to get it done in this series. The bottom fell out of his three point shooting as well. To claim that he is a top 5 player right now is ridiculous. There is a reason he fell to where you picked him in the draft. I'm not sure that he is a better player than Gordon Hayward currently.

Kawai might have been the best player on the Spurs, but he isn't anymore. Just wait until you see what happens when you add Aldridge into the Spurs system. Aldridge hasn't played in a system that is focused on getting him the ball and that is going to be what happens on the Spurs this year. Kawai's game is dunking and hitting the corner 3 which are system shots. You don't have that system in place with your current roster, especially playing against my defense.

Also, beer is half off at my stadium lessening whatever advantage you might think you have at point guard. . .

The injury that George sustained while nasty is not one that will hinder him long term. In fact the bone will grow back stronger. Julius Randle who suffered a very similar injury showed in summer league that it did not hinder his movements or anything.

According to Dr. Robert Klapper, a leader in minimally invasive surgical technique, and holds nine patents on specially designed instruments used in the procedure. Dr. Klapper was the orthopedic consultant to the TV show “ER,” and is the co-host of ESPN Radio’s Weekend Warrior, "PAUL GEORGE. No ligament tendon nerve or joint damage! Just broken bone and skin. He will return 100% the player he was!"

 

[Jazz and Utes]

Good to hear about PG13, although when you sustain an injury like his most of its mental, so his head will be the difference in whether or not returns to form. Healthy PG and Leonard paired up like they should've been in the first place would be one helluva duo.

 

[Jeffrey32]

Downplaying Kawhi won't get you anywhere, that is easy to see through. I think the wing and back court matchup favors jeffrey. But I also think Gobert is going to explode this season from a defensive stand point and I wish jeffrey's team luck getting any layups. I have always thought that adding Aldridge to Gobert would be an incredibly good move. That pairing alone is enough to carry scrubs, but add in solid players like Gay and Green and that is a tough matchup.

About the only pairing I could see taking out Gobert and Aldridge would be putting powerhouse two way players at both front court positions, like Griffin and Howard. Now that would be a duo for the ages. If only they were together on some team in this tournament. Hmmm.

Thank you for the compliments regarding my wings and guards. Gobert's sample size while impressive is still relatively small. As a Jazz fan, I hope he is the DPOY and proves that the last 30 weren't a fluke in any way. That said, I don't think Gobert's defensive presence completely makes up for my team's elite skill at wing and guard. I think Gobert would have a hard time guarding Drummond and dealing with my backcourt and wings who can all shoot and drive.

I'd argue that Drummond and Randolph are equal or close to every other front court duo in this tournament. Drummond is a bigger and currently more athletic version than Dwight Howard. And Randolph has an extremely high basketball IQ and is extremely consistent on the boards and scoring. He plays very efficient basketball, shooting over 60% from both 0-3 feet and 10-16 feet.

 

[Jeffrey32]

Good to hear about PG13, although when you sustain an injury like his most of its mental, so his head will be the difference in whether or not returns to form. Healthy PG and Leonard paired up like they should've been in the first place would be one helluva duo.

The fact that he came back at all last year, to me, shows he does not have a stumbling block mentally. A player who was fearful would have not come back at all last season. If anything his lack fear caused him to come back too soon and smartly shut it down after 8 games. In his first game back last season, though, in just 15 minutes, he had 13 points, two steals, two assists and two rebounds. Most guys would crave those numbers in 30 minutes.

While visiting Nike store China two months ago, he said, “After being drafted into the NBA, I was playing from the bench and then tried to be a starter, then an All-Star. My goal now is set to be MVP. This year, that hasn’t changed.”

He sounds like a guy who is mentally and physically ready to return to form.

 

[Jeffrey32]

Assuming the tides don't shift, I would 100% want a rematch at the end of the season with these teams.

 

[framer]

Assuming the tides don't shift, I would 100% want a rematch at the end of the season with these teams.

I think you should have the chance to be the best team from the losing bracket that moves on. You are better than many of the teams that won.

 

[Jeffrey32]

In light of last night's real head-to-head battle between Drummond and Gobert, I would love to revisit this hypothetical match-up. Drummond owned Gobert in the post in one-one-one situations, either scoring or getting to the line and shooting 8 for 11 from the stripe. At the end of the season, I think it would be a blast to redo the same team and match-ups. Paul George's near triple double should hopefully dispel questions on his comeback as well. Long season, but my team is looking good.