How true is this?

[LogGrad98]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Watch and discuss. I think he is exactly correct. So many people think the world owes them something. I know my kids feel that way and I am sure I show signs of that from time to time too, although I try not to.

 

[larryselbows]

There is so much truth in that video. Thanks for this.

 

[PearlWatson]

You are amazing LG!

I would totally be happy if I could get me one of these:

 

[VINYLONE]

Everything is cyclical...right?

All systems must or will fail and all empires will fail.

Or am I completely off base?

 

[LogGrad98]

Everything is cyclical...right?

All systems must or will fail and all empires will fail.

Or am I completely off base?

I think history has shown that to be true for the most part. I do think our form of government, although far from perfect, is the best-designed for long-term stability of most in the history of civilization.

Rome was close until the senate needed Octavians help to repel the threat of Antony. They gave Octavian (Julius Ceasar Augustus) authority so he would use his armies to withstand Antony's attempts to control Rome...and he never gave it up. The beginning of the Empire of Rome was arguably also the beginning of it's demise. I think our form of government is more likely to forestall a similar situation, but it requires vigilance and defense of the constitution, along with the encouragement of dissenting views to maintain.

But the risk is always there.

That is kind of what struck me about this video is how we change as a culture. It is true I see many things in my children that my parents would never have tolerated and frankly cannot understand. The sense of entitlement and the attitude that they are owed something by the world was not even much of a glimmer of a thought 2 generations ago (my parent's generation). Their attitude by and large was that you get what you earn, and if you don't earn it, you don't get it. It was that simple.

I think this has shifted dramatically in the past few decades. I personally feel it is destructive to our society and I can't help but wonder where it will lead, and if it will take another great tragedy on the scale of the World Wars to curb.

Is this kind of shift in attitude as a society indicative of an impending fall, a la the fall of Rome? Maybe that is overly melodramatic, but as I watch my kids and their friends and the things they value it really makes me wonder. We only have so much influence on them as children and there comes a point in every child's life when their friends and peers supplant their parents as the greatest infleunce in their lives. That is natural and normal, but you have to wonder where it will lead.

I know that is what every generation thinks about the next one coming after them, but the big question is about technology. Is the increased prosperity (as a whole) and the convenience of technology as we have it today, along with the pace of technological advancement, accelerating these changes and exacerbating the damage to society?

What is it with kids these days?




Holy **** I think I have become my father.

 

[VINYLONE]

I think history has shown that to be true for the most part. I do think our form of government, although far from perfect, is the best-designed for long-term stability of most in the history of civilization.

So you believe that our system will last forever or the foreseeable future? Also, do you think things will get better before they get worse or vice versa? And just to clarify, Im talking about from today on...

 

[Gameface]

That clip really made me laugh. I'm often in awe of what we as a species have done. For the most part I think it's all great and I'm proud to be human. I think it's good to step back now and then and realize that all these accomplishments came about to fulfill basic human wants and desires, not because people are gluttonous greedy slobs, which is a sentiment I hear quite often.

 

[LogGrad98]

So you believe that our system will last forever or the foreseeable future? Also, do you think things will get better before they get worse or vice versa? And just to clarify, Im talking about from today on...

At least for the foreseeable future. I think our system of government is unique in it's system of checks and balances. No other civilization has had that type of government before in this way. The Romans were close, but they lacked the checks against the executive branch and a firm judiciary with any clout in the government itself. I think we stand a good chance of lasting a very long time, if not indefinitely. Imo it would take something from outside the country to "bring us down" so to speak.

Of course anything is possible, and people are unpredictable animals, so it could turn on it's ear with the wrong combination of executive, legislative, and judiciary in place. But I think that is highly unlikelty. Anyway this is just how I see it. I am sure there were plenty of romans who thought the same thing before guys like Caligula took the reigns.

 

[LogGrad98]

That clip really made me laugh. I'm often in awe of what we as a species have done. For the most part I think it's all great and I'm proud to be human. I think it's good to step back now and then and realize that all these accomplishments came about to fulfill basic human wants and desires, not because people are gluttonous greedy slobs, which is a sentiment I hear quite often.

I agree with you GF and I think that people are people and have always been people. I think the gluttonous greedy slob part follows the technological innovation and prosperity, not the other way around. There was a time that obesity was viewed as desireable because it was a mark of prosperity: you had the money to eat enough and work little enough to get fat. That has shifted entirely now.

I do think this clip is an interesting commentary on how times change. There will always be arguments about whether the new or old generation is better or worse. I guess really we can't say.


But in my day, we had to walk uphill to school, both ways, in 5 feet of snow, in June. Kids today have it too easy. =)

 

[franklin]

That is kind of what struck me about this video is how we change as a culture. It is true I see many things in my children that my parents would never have tolerated and frankly cannot understand. The sense of entitlement and the attitude that they are owed something by the world was not even much of a glimmer of a thought 2 generations ago (my parent's generation). Their attitude by and large was that you get what you earn, and if you don't earn it, you don't get it. It was that simple.

I think this has shifted dramatically in the past few decades. I personally feel it is destructive to our society and I can't help but wonder where it will lead, and if it will take another great tragedy on the scale of the World Wars to curb.

I know that is what every generation thinks about the next one coming after them, but the big question is about technology. Is the increased prosperity (as a whole) and the convenience of technology as we have it today, along with the pace of technological advancement, accelerating these changes and exacerbating the damage to society?

Great post that I would rep if I wasn't out of you rep.

I worry more about stifling technological advancement than increasing the pace. There's this strange idea that too fast advancement is a bad thing as it puts people out of jobs faster than some arbitrary threshold, which nobody has defined. I can't see how advancement isn't a good problem to have. To me, it's a sign our society is failing to meet the simpler challenges. This country saw WWI and II, the Great Depression, the rise of OPEC, and Jimmy Carter all in the 19th century, and came out the other end all the better. Now we can't handle national debt, IT,and the commies? Give me a break.

This notion that society is going to hell in a hand basket is a self-reinforcing notion that is rooted in nothing more than an archaic, pre-Christian worldview that has been incorrect for at least 2600 years. The world isn't going to end tomorrow, so why don't we quit talking like a bunch of Chicken Little's? Get rid of the doom and gloom and you'll be 95% of the way to curing the "problems". It's nothing more than a negative frame of mind and weak mindedness. (How proud would the Dutchman be?) You know, the surprising thing is, with all the corrupt politicians, bribery, M.I.C., prophets of doom and gloom, right wing nutjobs, hard lefty socialists, and no easy place left to flush our toilets into, this nation still has this nice little way of rising up to meet the challenges of the day. For some reason I don't think it's ever been any different (the attitudes that is).

On another note... I worry that this easy money policy will be the silver bullet that kills innovation inside our borders for a while. There's nowhere near as much incentive to innovate when money comes everyone's way easily. Why work harder, more efficiently, or think differently when everything is running so smoothly? If it's not broke then don't fix it, right? Complacency has been the downfall of plenty companies in the past, and I can see it setting in deep with our government hell bent on increasing aggregate demand at all costs (or none, as they like to tell us). Systemic shocks force innovation in a way. On the other side of the coin you have gluttony. Why make things better if you already have everything you need [provided by big brother or whoever]?

 

[VINYLONE]

Im listening to this right now...

SOURCE

Misconception: Can U.S. Economy Grow Indefinitely?
Listen to the Story
Morning Edition [4 min 50 sec]

March 7, 2011
Economist Tyler Cowen in his book The Great Stagnation, argues that U.S. economic growth largely plateaued in the 1970s. He tells Renee Montagne the resources that fueled the country's progress over the last 300 years are largely gone, and expectations need to be readjusted.

Rather interesting...

 

[LogGrad98]

Great post that I would rep if I wasn't out of you rep.

I worry more about stifling technological advancement than increasing the pace. There's this strange idea that too fast advancement is a bad thing as it puts people out of jobs faster than some arbitrary threshold, which nobody has defined. I can't see how advancement isn't a good problem to have. To me, it's a sign our society is failing to meet the simpler challenges. This country saw WWI and II, the Great Depression, the rise of OPEC, and Jimmy Carter all in the 19th century, and came out the other end all the better. Now we can't handle national debt, IT,and the commies? Give me a break.

This notion that society is going to hell in a hand basket is a self-reinforcing notion that is rooted in nothing more than an archaic, pre-Christian worldview that has been incorrect for at least 2600 years. The world isn't going to end tomorrow, so why don't we quit talking like a bunch of Chicken Little's? Get rid of the doom and gloom and you'll be 95% of the way to curing the "problems". It's nothing more than a negative frame of mind and weak mindedness. (How proud would the Dutchman be?) You know, the surprising thing is, with all the corrupt politicians, bribery, M.I.C., prophets of doom and gloom, right wing nutjobs, hard lefty socialists, and no easy place left to flush our toilets into, this nation still has this nice little way of rising up to meet the challenges of the day. For some reason I don't think it's ever been any different (the attitudes that is).

On another note... I worry that this easy money policy will be the silver bullet that kills innovation inside our borders for a while. There's nowhere near as much incentive to innovate when money comes everyone's way easily. Why work harder, more efficiently, or think differently when everything is running so smoothly? If it's not broke then don't fix it, right? Complacency has been the downfall of plenty companies in the past, and I can see it setting in deep with our government hell bent on increasing aggregate demand at all costs (or none, as they like to tell us). Systemic shocks force innovation in a way. On the other side of the coin you have gluttony. Why make things better if you already have everything you need [provided by big brother or whoever]?

Good points to be sure. And in your last paragraph you touched on my biggest concern (bold). When it comes to technology my concern with the pace of technological advancement is the sense of complacency it breeds. Everything is faster, cheaper, easier to get, does more, and makes it so we don't have to do as much for ourselves. Complacency I think is the biggest threat. Complacency not in business or science or even government, although complacency in those sectors are dangerous as well, but rather complacency among the general populace. We see it in obesity rates, in fading school effectiveness and scholastic achievement, and in the growing sense of entitlement. I think this ties into things like road rage, spurious lawsuits, even the kids that walk into oncoming traffic then when you don't stop fast enough he hits your car with his backpack (has happened to me more than once). That kid felt entitled to walk wherever he pleased, regardless of respect for law or propriety. Again is the age-old adage one generation to the next: I would never have done that when I was a kid.

Another example: my kids freaked out when we shut off our cable TV. It is as if they cannot entertain themselves when denied the ubiquity of popular culture spewed from the TV or computer. And it isn't as if we gave them free reign on the TV or internet all the time, we set boundaries, but the sense of helplessness they showed is troubling. They adjusted of course, but it was pretty painful.

You wonder if the world of Wall-E is really that far-fetched (minus the stupid robot love story).

 

[franklin]

Economist Tyler Cowen in his book The Great Stagnation, argues that U.S. economic growth largely plateaued in the 1970s. He tells Renee Montagne the resources that fueled the country's progress over the last 300 years are largely gone, and expectations need to be readjusted.

I can't pinpoint why, but I can never get into the Marginal Revolution blog. I haven't read Cowen's full stance, but I don't see how any economist can say growth plateaued in the 70's and hold a straight face. One graph of GNP per capita should be enough to squash this notion outright (it's pretty much 2% constant over the last 250 years), but I guess that doesn't sell any books or get NPR appearances.

As far as "resources that fueled the country's progress over the last 300 years" goes, I guess he mourns the loss of a huge agrarian surplus of labor? I'd look at that more of a "we made it" moment than something to lament. Now, instead of advancing from the cow pie to the factory, maybe we can focus on more massages, fishing trips, more music, and finer foods. Growth only caps when we lose our imaginations and our minds go blank. I guess the other option is to exclude economic activity that doesn't fit well into a world view.

I think you should test drive some more upbeat economic writers Viny. Doom and gloom is self fulfilling.

 

[VINYLONE]

I can't pinpoint why, but I can never get into the Marginal Revolution blog. I haven't read Cowen's full stance, but I don't see how any economist can say growth plateaued in the 70's and hold a straight face.

The question that begs to be asked is whether it was real growth or a by-product of "financial innovation?" I mean, Wall Street grows and grows and grows, but they don't do anything...per se.

 

[The Pearl]

Good video but largely built on the false thesis that people were happier generations ago or before the advent of what we believe to be modern day comforts. This theory assumes happiness is a result of external factors or influences.

I doubt from generation to generation there is a general difference between happiness levels. Expecting a working internet is probably no more different than expecting a TV antennae to be consistently working in the mid-70's or your horse to be dependable rather than sick when it is time to plow the fields.

It is more likely that technology provides an avenue for people to express unhappiness so that it becomes more noticeable in general. In this day in age, the rusty wheel gets the grease.

 

[The Pearl]

Good points to be sure. And in your last paragraph you touched on my biggest concern (bold). When it comes to technology my concern with the pace of technological advancement is the sense of complacency it breeds. Everything is faster, cheaper, easier to get, does more, and makes it so we don't have to do as much for ourselves. Complacency I think is the biggest threat. Complacency not in business or science or even government, although complacency in those sectors are dangerous as well, but rather complacency among the general populace. We see it in obesity rates, in fading school effectiveness and scholastic achievement, and in the growing sense of entitlement. I think this ties into things like road rage, spurious lawsuits, even the kids that walk into oncoming traffic then when you don't stop fast enough he hits your car with his backpack (has happened to me more than once). That kid felt entitled to walk wherever he pleased, regardless of respect for law or propriety. Again is the age-old adage one generation to the next: I would never have done that when I was a kid.

Another example: my kids freaked out when we shut off our cable TV. It is as if they cannot entertain themselves when denied the ubiquity of popular culture spewed from the TV or computer. And it isn't as if we gave them free reign on the TV or internet all the time, we set boundaries, but the sense of helplessness they showed is troubling. They adjusted of course, but it was pretty painful.

You wonder if the world of Wall-E is really that far-fetched (minus the stupid robot love story).

Heh,

It is just a function of how they spend their time. In my day, we left the house, rode bikes, and generally created things to do. If mom would have took our bikes away and kept us in the house, we would have have been lost on how to spend an entire summer after playing board games for two hours.

 

[The Pearl]

The question that begs to be asked is whether it was real growth or a by-product of "financial innovation?" I mean, Wall Street grows and grows and grows, but they don't do anything...per se.

Financial engineering or innovation is no different than other forms of production. The capital markets and financial creativity are the blood of capitalism.

 

[Sneakers]

^^^ Now that's the real truth

 

[The Pearl]

Im listening to this right now...

SOURCE



Rather interesting...

You should make Matt Ridley's "The Rational Optimist" your next read. It provides a historic retrospective of the doom and gloom crowd and how they have been wrong for decades and centuries. It is not different this time and it never has been. The human spirit for freedom, the deep seated need to innovate and to improve our conditions is as robust as ever. It can't be stopped.

There has always been and always will be a segment of the population is wired in perpetual fear, believing what they want to believe, and spending their entire intellectual existing seeking info that confirms thier already closely held beliefs.

 

[VINYLONE]

Will do. Thanks Pearl!