Looking for feedback: Community Solar

[Dr. Jones]

In other words, we pay for it in taxes. If I don't do it I still pay for those who do because my taxes go up anyway. Unless something has drastically changed it is not cheaper to produce energy through solar than coal, etc. It's significantly more expensive. So we get to feel good because we're contributing to Hillary's dream of putting coal miners out of work?

Wrong. Trump is bringing coal back.

Rather than Obummer buying oil from arab nations so we can fuel the semis driving the coal to ports and the tankers to ship it to India so their economy can thrive on the cheaper costs... and pollute THEIR atmosphere rather than us pollute OURS. L-O-L

 

[Dr. Jones]

In other words, we pay for it in taxes. If I don't do it I still pay for those who do because my taxes go up anyway. Unless something has drastically changed it is not cheaper to produce energy through solar than coal, etc. It's significantly more expensive. So we get to feel good because we're contributing to Hillary's dream of putting coal miners out of work?

Is this true, Bean? Are you subsidized? Upfront, on going?? By whom?

 

[Dr. Jones]

so a quick search looks like a 30% subsidy..

 

[Beantown]

Awesome. I have thought about employing this same model and have some great sales and marketing ideas for it.
Have considered doing this, almost exactly, for several years.

Would love to see/understand the financial modeling.

If you want to talk partnering out this way let me know. I can bankroll it.

Just sent you a PM. Would love to discuss more. The next promising states we are looking at are NY and CA. You need legislation that allows "virtual net-metering". Also high electric rates give us the ability to provide a discount.

 

[Beantown]

Is this true, Bean? Are you subsidized? Upfront, on going?? By whom?

The subsidy's are the same for everyone. A resident or developer (the person that funds the project) qualifies for the 30% tax credit. Then there are utility incentives and in MA there are SREC's. An SCREC is basically a clean energy credit that can be sold on an open market.

But again, clean energy incentives are warped by big oil incentives. All energy production is incentivized. Tragic that dirty energy gets the majority of incentives. Not to mention pollution, cancer, asthma, or project clean ups that are never factored in the true price.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

so a quick search looks like a 30% subsidy..

A quick search shows that electricity generated from solar costs 2 to 3 times as much as electricity from coal. That money has to come from somewhere, especially because the consumers are getting a discount for using the more expensive source.

In addition, electricity from solar cannot be delivered on a reliable basis (nighttime, clouds). This means that coal fired plants must serve as a backup. They literally generate redundant energy. I toured a coal fired power plant recently. Obviously I got their biased view, but they made some pretty compelling points:

1) We have no means of storing electricity, therefore we constantly generate excess electricity which goes unused.
2) In order to reduce emissions and operate efficiently coal fired plants must run at 100%, so they can't be taken offline until a replacement electricity is put in place that will generate, at it's lowest point, as much electricity as the coal plant was.
3) This is not as easy as it sounds because wind and solar are not reliable. In other words, they generate a fluctuating amount of power based on conditions.

We've discussed the global warming thing in other threads. Many people believe it represents an imminent danger and that if we don't do something the consequences will be disastrous. Some people think that reducing our emissions is the most important problem our world faces. In order to reach this conclusion you have to ignore that our most aggressive schedule of US reductions would hardly put a dent in the overall world increases as a result of China, India, etc. You also have to ignore that there are other ways we could combat global warming if it really was a legitimate threat.

tldr: I wish that market forces rather than politics were driving these decisions.

 

[Miggs]

Beantown selling us on solar like Congress sold The Curtis Act of 1898 to the Natives. Ironic.

 

[Beantown]

A quick search shows that electricity generated from solar costs 2 to 3 times as much as electricity from coal. That money has to come from somewhere, especially because the consumers are getting a discount for using the more expensive source.

In addition, electricity from solar cannot be delivered on a reliable basis (nighttime, clouds). This means that coal fired plants must serve as a backup. They literally generate redundant energy. I toured a coal fired power plant recently. Obviously I got their biased view, but they made some pretty compelling points:

1) We have no means of storing electricity, therefore we constantly generate excess electricity which goes unused.
2) In order to reduce emissions and operate efficiently coal fired plants must run at 100%, so they can't be taken offline until a replacement electricity is put in place that will generate, at it's lowest point, as much electricity as the coal plant was.
3) This is not as easy as it sounds because wind and solar are not reliable. In other words, they generate a fluctuating amount of power based on conditions.

We've discussed the global warming thing in other threads. Many people believe it represents an imminent danger and that if we don't do something the consequences will be disastrous. Some people think that reducing our emissions is the most important problem our world faces. In order to reach this conclusion you have to ignore that our most aggressive schedule of US reductions would hardly put a dent in the overall world increases as a result of China, India, etc. You also have to ignore that there are other ways we could combat global warming if it really was a legitimate threat.

tldr: I wish that market forces rather than politics were driving these decisions.

1. Fossil fuels have more subsidies than renewable. 4X in fact. That's why it's cheap.
2. Costs on our health and cleanup sites are never factored into the actual costs of it's production.
3. Utilities have some of the highest margins out there. Why do you think Warren Buffet invests in them?
4. Take climate change out of the equation. Nobody can argue against air pollution. Utah is the perfect example. Asthma in Utah is skyrocketing and the valley is brown most of the time. Not to mention now that pollution haze is making it's way to the Utah national parks thanks to the coal industry.

 

[♪alt13]

Does the customer commit to a certain rate? Is there a reason why I as the customer may be tempted to wait to get a better deal?

 

[Miggs]

Hi everyone. In conjunction with the rooftop solar thread it made me want to get feedback on my business. What my company does here in Massachusetts is build local Community Solar gardens/farms. These gardens are created for residences/small business's who don't qualify for rooftop solar (shading, bad roof, condo, renters) or for people who don't like the look of them. It's also used for people who have rooftop solar but are not 100% offset.

Here is the breakdown of the program:

1. No upfront cost, no install on roof or property (no modifications to the home)

2. Can offset 100% of the bill (no restriction on rooftop sizing)

3. Able to "resize" system if usage changes (unlike rooftop)

4. Can keep the panels with them if they move

5. Can transfer to anyone (not just the new homeowner or business owner)

6. Pay .90 cents on the $1 for Community Solar, so it ends up being a 10% discount

7. Local solar farms are a boost to the local economy as well as the environment


Here is a company video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q044rGoaIJo



So I am looking for feedback. Is there any reason you as a resident or business owner would not participate in Community Solar?

Thanks for the responses!

Business's? Ugh.

 

[Miggs]

4. The panels are connected to your utility account number, when you move you just provide your new account number.

5. You can transfer those panels to another account. Any account in the area.

6. Every .90 cents you pay for a solar net metering credit, you get a full $1 value to offset your utility bill.

7. Solar farms go on unusable farm land or brownfields, local developers, installers, electricians....etc.


Does that help?

4. What if the new homeowner wants to be able to get solar? He can't because the previous owner who's moved elsewhere has the account linked to his former rooftop's panels. No?

 

[Beantown]

Does the customer commit to a certain rate? Is there a reason why I as the customer may be tempted to wait to get a better deal?

It's not a rate but a discount. So you will always pay .90 cents on the $1. No matter if the utility rates go up or down. Can't think of a reason to wait, it's the largest discount available besides rootftop solar.

 

[Beantown]

4. What if the new homeowner wants to be able to get solar? He can't because the previous owner who's moved elsewhere has the account linked to his former rooftop's panels. No?

Not sure I get the question. You can cancel at anytime. So if you move to a home that qualifies for rooftop you can get that and downsize your community solar off-take (most likely the rooftop solar isn't offsetting 100%).

 

[Miggs]

We're both confused. I live at house a and get solar panels. Five years later, I move to house b that doesn't have solar panels. Then what?

 

[Beantown]

We're both confused. I live at house a and get solar panels. Five years later, I move to house b that doesn't have solar panels. Then what?

Rooftop and Community Solar are two different programs.

So in this scenario your rooftop panels stay with the home and transfer to the new homeonwer. Let's say you move to a home that has lots of trees or a condo....so you can't do rooftop solar. So then you could sign up for community solar.

 

[Miggs]

Rooftop and Community Solar are two different programs.

So in this scenario your rooftop panels stay with the home and transfer to the new homeonwer. Let's say you move to a home that has lots of trees or a condo....so you can't do rooftop solar. So then you could sign up for community solar.

Gotcha. It would help if I fully read all posts or retained what I did read.

 

[Beantown]

Gotcha. It would help if I fully read all posts or retained what I did read.

No worries, I appreciate the questions.

 

[bigb]

Gotcha. It would help if I fully read all posts or retained what I did read.

And he's a teacher folks.

 

[Gameface]

And he's a teacher folks.

An English teacher, no less.

 

[Gameface]

What do you mean for the company?

This is my favorite post of the thread.

Also, everyone, we've given Beanclown massive amounts of **** over the years. I'm pretty sure this MFer is a millionaire at this point or will be soon. Does that make anyone else feel kind of like crap?

Congrats Beantown! Seriously.