Hayward Question

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I really think people are just remebering that one time he guarded an old Kobe pretty good, but are somehow forgetting all the other times he got abused.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

And Hayward is going to improve his strength. I really don't think guarding SF is going to be a big problem for him. (If someone says how is he going to guard Carmello or Lebron I am going to give you negative rep, no one can guard those people.)

 

[honz]

He is not. His wingspan is shorter than his height in shoes. He isn't that athletic either, quite pedestrian in that regard. Because of these factors, it's a testament to his intelligence, instincts, and commitment to defense. Those things matter, and if Hayward keeps working like he has he will be one of the most versatile players in the league.

I don't know if Hayward really works as a full-time 2 for the same reasons I don't think Millsap works as a full-time 3; speed. I think Hayward's true NBA position will be 3, but that doesn't mean he can't play 2. I don't think it's important to get a SF for sake of getting a SF in this draft. But since the SG field is thin and there seem to be a glut of SF candidates, then drafting one seems natural if we want to see how Hayward as a 2 works out.

What makes you say he is not athletic? I thought I dispelled that myth when I compared his combine numbers to the other "great athletes" in last year's draft...

 

[honz]

I really think people are just remebering that one time he guarded an old Kobe pretty good, but are somehow forgetting all the other times he got abused.

Like when he was asked to guard PG's on occasion and stayed in front of them better then Ronnie Price does? The only way he got abused this year defensively was committing way too many fouls and getting abused by the officials..but he became much better at staying out of foul trouble as the year went on.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I like Hayward at SG because of his improving 3pt shot and his terrific ball-handling and passing skills. Combine that with his size at 6-8 and I think he'll be a top-12 SG in this league within a couple of years.

When I envision this Jazz team developing into a playoff team - I think they need a SF with the ability to score in 1-on-1 situations. Now if Utah somehow managed to get an Austin Rivers - I'd be fine w/Hayward playing SF but a 3 who can create his own shots in late-game situations is the big piece I hope this team can add within the next 2 drafts.

Good points. Hayward can create mismatches at the 2 due to his height and he has the range to stretch the defense. Our concern was over his ability to defend. As we saw late in the season, he establishes and maintains good position and his length bothers shooters.

I agree re: a SF. Jazz have no one who can create a shot when the offense bogs down. It would be nice to have that in a SF. And I'd rather see a bigger Hayward at the 2 vs. him playing undersized at the 3.

 

[BENTLEY]

I don't think it's important to get a SF for sake of getting a SF in this draft.

This. Only draft a SF if it's Dwill2 at 3.

Let Hayward and CJ play there this year and get Gilchrist in the 2012 draft.

 

[billyshelby]

I'm absolutely sure we have no idea who Hayward can defend in the pros yet. It's amazing how one game defending Kobe, who doesn't drive anymore, has definitively determined what he can do. I hope he can play the 2 because that would give us great length at the position. But I suspect he's going to sort himself out as a 3. That makes the most sense anyway since Raja has to get his 42 minutes somewhere.

 

[BENTLEY]

Sorry if that was a tangent.

On topic: Hayward plays better at the 2. He's like a second pg and he's better creating with the ball in his hand. You don't have that if he's playing the 3.
Plus, his defense is better on smaller 2's in the league. His talents are just much better at the 2.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

NBA position names should be changed to Bigs, Wings, and Points. Then we could stop arguing over the subtle differences in C and PF or SG and SF.

Offensively, SG and SF do virtually the same thing within the Jazz offense. Defensively, there are plenty of SG who are too fast for Hayward, and plenty of PF who are too big. That's what the NBA is about, creating mismatches. He's a wing.

 

[LogGrad98]

He is not. His wingspan is shorter than his height in shoes. He isn't that athletic either, quite pedestrian in that regard. Because of these factors, it's a testament to his intelligence, instincts, and commitment to defense. Those things matter, and if Hayward keeps working like he has he will be one of the most versatile players in the league.

I don't know if Hayward really works as a full-time 2 for the same reasons I don't think Millsap works as a full-time 3; speed. I think Hayward's true NBA position will be 3, but that doesn't mean he can't play 2. I don't think it's important to get a SF for sake of getting a SF in this draft. But since the SG field is thin and there seem to be a glut of SF candidates, then drafting one seems natural if we want to see how Hayward as a 2 works out.

At his height and even his sub-standard reach he is a long player at the 2. You don't need a standing reach of 12 feet to be considered long at the 2 spot. Need to remember points of comparison. I also didn't say athletic (although I think you sorely under-rate him in that area). What I said was quick. He showed at the end of the season that he has a quicker first step and was quicker to get back to his defensive assignment than we originally saw from him. That will get better with his intelligence and hard work you mentioned.

And I disagree with you about speed being his limiting factor. He showed in flashes that he is every bit fast enough to keep up with the top level 2's in the league. Maybe not in an all-out sprint, but around the basket and staying in front of his man he is plenty fast enough to play the 2.

You have got to be kidding me? He will never be an elite defender. NEVER. That is not to say he can be an ok to above average defender, but never elite.

I never said he WOULD be an elite defender, but he has the tools. And why couldn't he? What did Bowen have that Hayward lacks? Lateral quickness? Bowen was not all that quick. Was it size? Hayward is taller and can get just as strong. No most elite level defenders put in the work. That is usually the defining characteristic. So show me why he couldn't develop that ability.

I really think people are just remebering that one time he guarded an old Kobe pretty good, but are somehow forgetting all the other times he got abused.

I think you are forgetting it was the first chance he had all season, in his ROOKIE YEAR, to get real minutes. And he showed some great potential and improvement from even just a month or 2 before. For a rookie to put a game like that against LA together with the limited time he has had says something. By the end of this season he was easily looking better than any other wing we have on the team. He has one trait in spades that trumps CJ all day every day: he is fearless and mentally strong. That is a big part of the game.

I think he has the talent and the physical gifts to be something special at the 2 or 3. That is why I think he can be the all-around wing we need. If he puts in the work he could be a top-level player at those positions.

He is of course not like a Kobe or LBJ who would be top 5 players in the league just coasting by on their insane talent and athleticism. But he has a solid enough combination of talent and athleticism that, with the work, he could be approaching that rarified air in his career.

 

[BENTLEY]

Raja needs to be traded. Minny's the only team that seems to want him. If Raja remains with the team this next year it won't change the fact that this next year in not a year I expect the Jazz to contend for anything, but it's a year to get guys experience playing together while evaluating the pieces. 2012 will bring in more pieces and then the Jazz will have their core more settled. As of now collect assets, let 'em play together awhile, and then make decisions who to trade and who to target in drafts/FA.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

Raja needs to be traded. Minny's the only team that seems to want him. If Raja remains with the team this next year it won't change the fact that this next year in not a year I expect the Jazz to contend for anything, but it's a year to get guys experience playing together while evaluating the pieces. 2012 will bring in more pieces and then the Jazz will have their core more settled. As of now collect assets, let 'em play together awhile, and then make decisions who to trade and who to target in drafts/FA.

Agreed. But what the H does this have to do with the thread?