Do we trust our organizational culture?

[stitches]

I don't know how to stress this enough, but the OKC Thunder just did what many of us(me included) thought close to impossible - Just a year ago everybody presumed PG13 was a one year rental just waiting to go to play for his home team... a storied franchise with HoFer in their FO, with LeBron about to join him... A year later, PG13 not only said "no thanks" to the Lakers, LeBron and Magic... he didn't even give them a meeting to shut them down and re-sign for 4 years with the Thunder?

What changed in that year? How come a team that got bounced in the first round by a rookie made good enough impression on PG13 that he decided to ditch what seemed to be hid plan all along and stay?

I really think Presti is running a great operation in OKC. There have been rumors and nebulous statements about how different OKC feels than most teams... how their management has succeeded in making players feel like parts of something bigger and about how tight their locker room is. Their culture, their leadership both on the floor and off the floor seemed to give Presti the confidence to pull the trigger on the PG13 deal and trust that in that one year he will be converted and will be not just willing, but eager to re-sign with their franchise.

So my question is - do you trust our organizational culture? Do you trust our culture enough to bet on a similar situation with a disgruntled star with expiring contract? Do you think we can trade our way to a star and expect that star to stay past his expiring deal?

I've been one of the people who has been the strongest proponent against making this type of trades of giving up long-term assets for short-term rentals, so after what OKC did I'm beginning to waver in my conviction that we should not even think about it. I think we have good culture and it feels like the locker-room is great, but do you think we have:

1. good enough team,
2. good enough organizational culture,
3. good enough lockerroom

...to make a big free agent want to play for this franchise if we are given a year to sell him on the franchsie?

Or do you consider this PG13 decision an outlier that shouldn't inform the way we approach similar situations?

And an additional question - do you think the people in our FO truly believe(not just paying lip service, true "I'm betting my job on this" belief) that we have what it takes to keep a superstar we've traded for?

 

[Rubashov]

Yes

/thread

 

[RJF]

TL;DR.

 

[fishonjazz]

I don't know how to stress this enough, but the OKC Thunder just did what many of us(me included) thought close to impossible - Just a year ago everybody presumed PG13 was a one year rental just waiting to go to play for his home team... a storied franchise with HoFer in their FO, with LeBron about to join him... A year later, PG13 not only said "no thanks" to the Lakers, LeBron and Magic... he didn't even give them a meeting to shut them down and re-sign for 4 years with the Thunder?

What changed in that year? How come a team that got bounced in the first round by a rookie made good enough impression on PG13 that he decided to ditch what seemed to be hid plan all along and stay?

I really think Presti is running a great operation in OKC. There have been rumors and nebulous statements about how different OKC feels than most teams... how their management has succeeded in making players feel like parts of something bigger and about how tight their locker room is. Their culture, their leadership both on the floor and off the floor seemed to give Presti the confidence to pull the trigger on the PG13 deal and trust that in that one year he will be converted and will be not just willing, but eager to re-sign with their franchise.

So my question is - do you trust our organizational culture? Do you trust our culture enough to bet on a similar situation with a disgruntled star with expiring contract? Do you think we can trade our way to a star and expect that star to stay past his expiring deal?

I've been one of the people who has been the strongest proponent against making this type of trades of giving up long-term assets for short-term rentals, so after what OKC did I'm beginning to waver in my conviction that we should not even think about it. I think we have good culture and it feels like the locker-room is great, but do you think we have:

1. good enough team,
2. good enough organizational culture,
3. good enough lockerroom

...to make a big free agent want to play for this franchise if we are given a year to sell him on the franchsie?

Or do you consider this PG13 decision an outlier that shouldn't inform the way we approach similar situations?

And an additional question - do you think the people in our FO truly believe(not just paying lip service, true "I'm betting my job on this" belief) that we have what it takes to keep a superstar we've traded for?

I think pg is an outlier but I also trust our culture and team and origination to be able to do something similar. I think quin, DL, Donovan, and Rudy is an elite group that could convince a guy to re sign unexpectedly like pg did.

 

[karl malone]

Interesting topic. Personally, I would feel more comfortable with risking long-term assets on a potential short-term rental once the team is a little more established (WCF) as there is a greater league-wide stigma surrounding Utah as a FA destination imo. OKC has had more recent success & Westbrook is a bigger star than Mitchell (currently).

A big reason I believe we would be better off letting the core develop/grow together for an additional year or 2 is my trust in the team culture. This past season has convinced me that this team may not necessarily need a 3rd star to contend (although actually winning a championship might be a different story) due to our system/style of play/DM & Gobert/etc.

Our core is already competitive & only going to improve as LBJ/GSW/etc continue to age. They're also young enough that imo it would make the most sense to focus on maintaining long-term flexibility unless the perfect situation happens to present itself.

This team (& DM's pull) still needs another year or 2 to grow before taking this type of gamble imo. With 2 young stars, a solid collection of young complimentary pieces, & time on his side, DL can afford to sit back & get a better read on the roster/league before attempting to add that final piece to push this team into contention.

 

[8]

I’ll be honest, I didn’t read the whole thing. Just stopped when I started reading about OKC and thinking about how the Jazz beat them in the playoffs last season.

 

[8]

Don’t see what’s so great about OKC compared to Utah.
They have Paul George but the Jazz are still better. The Jazz have finished better the past two seasons.
Durant left OKC desiring a better ‘culture’.
OKC traded a future MVP for Jermey Lamb, and they really lucked out drafting Durant and Westbrook.

 

[Stoked]

I think we have a very strong culture. With all the signs from the FO, coaching staff and players why would I doubt it?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yes, but it depends on player's personality.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't know how to stress this enough, but the OKC Thunder just did what many of us(me included) thought close to impossible - Just a year ago everybody presumed PG13 was a one year rental just waiting to go to play for his home team... a storied franchise with HoFer in their FO, with LeBron about to join him... A year later, PG13 not only said "no thanks" to the Lakers, LeBron and Magic... he didn't even give them a meeting to shut them down and re-sign for 4 years with the Thunder?

What changed in that year? How come a team that got bounced in the first round by a rookie made good enough impression on PG13 that he decided to ditch what seemed to be hid plan all along and stay?

I really think Presti is running a great operation in OKC. There have been rumors and nebulous statements about how different OKC feels than most teams... how their management has succeeded in making players feel like parts of something bigger and about how tight their locker room is. Their culture, their leadership both on the floor and off the floor seemed to give Presti the confidence to pull the trigger on the PG13 deal and trust that in that one year he will be converted and will be not just willing, but eager to re-sign with their franchise.

So my question is - do you trust our organizational culture? Do you trust our culture enough to bet on a similar situation with a disgruntled star with expiring contract? Do you think we can trade our way to a star and expect that star to stay past his expiring deal?

I've been one of the people who has been the strongest proponent against making this type of trades of giving up long-term assets for short-term rentals, so after what OKC did I'm beginning to waver in my conviction that we should not even think about it. I think we have good culture and it feels like the locker-room is great, but do you think we have:

1. good enough team,
2. good enough organizational culture,
3. good enough lockerroom

...to make a big free agent want to play for this franchise if we are given a year to sell him on the franchsie?

Or do you consider this PG13 decision an outlier that shouldn't inform the way we approach similar situations?

And an additional question - do you think the people in our FO truly believe(not just paying lip service, true "I'm betting my job on this" belief) that we have what it takes to keep a superstar we've traded for?

I do on the right guy. Hayward leaving was more of a case where you don’t know what you got till it’s gone. If it’s someone that wants nightlife and action then nah... it’s about knowing yourself and who you are working with.

 

[Jack Strop]

OKC is going to have a payroll of $315m this year in salaries and tax penalties. That would be a record. Not even the Russian mafia boss had that high of a payroll for the Nets. That's not sustainable.

As for the Jazz...well, it's still Utah. Sorry folks, the narrative has changed a little, but not much. You heard it in the interview with Rudy. Media expects players to leave, just like Gordon. Donovan did his best, but PG never seriously considered Utah, nor did Bjelica.

There are only a select group of players who would play in Utah. It does no good trading a bunch of assets for a higher profile guy if he's just going to leave. We have a great team right now. IMO, Lindsey needs to set his sights on keeping Favors and Exum and, at the deadline, using Burks and other expirings to trade for a key veteran.

 

[bigmike]

I think we have one of the best organizational cultures in the league.

Raja Bell was a turd, Hayward made up his mind ages ago that he was leaving, and D Will has expressed remorse about how his tenure here ended. Outside of those 3, I can't remember a Jazzman/former Jazzman not raving about his time with the franchise.

I think we're generally regarded as having one of the very best ownership groups, management teams, and coaching staffs in the league and there's great continuity across all 3 of those levels. It's a huge asset for us.

 

[TheStormofWar]

OKC is going to have a payroll of $315m this year in salaries and tax penalties. That would be a record. Not even the Russian mafia boss had that high of a payroll for the Nets. That's not sustainable.

As for the Jazz...well, it's still Utah. Sorry folks, the narrative has changed a little, but not much. You heard it in the interview with Rudy. Media expects players to leave, just like Gordon. Donovan did his best, but PG never seriously considered Utah, nor did Bjelica.

There are only a select group of players who would play in Utah. It does no good trading a bunch of assets for a higher profile guy if he's just going to leave. We have a great team right now. IMO, Lindsey needs to set his sights on keeping Favors and Exum and, at the deadline, using Burks and other expirings to trade for a key veteran.

I'm not seeing where Bjelly has gotten an offer yet from any team?

 

[Jack Strop]

I think we have one of the best organizational cultures in the league.

Raja Bell was a turd, Hayward made up his mind ages ago that he was leaving, and D Will has expressed remorse about how his tenure here ended. Outside of those 3, I can't remember a Jazzman/former Jazzman not raving about his time with the franchise.

I think we're generally regarded as having one of the very best ownership groups, management teams, and coaching staffs in the league and there's great continuity across all 3 of those levels. It's a huge asset for us.

And a lot of what you cited happened under the Sloan, Corbin, KOC, Rigby and Miller reign. As much as I've criticized Dennis for a lot of his drafts, I have always given him credit for changing the culture of the Jazz. He brought the Jazz org into the current age, first by hiring a player's coach who actually communicates with his entire roster from 1-17. Jerry and Ty had the attitude that rookies should just sit on the bench and shut up. For example, Kanter may have been a jerk, but the Jazz were largely to blame. I remember Raja telling the story that Enes had to ask him why he got DNP's after playing great in the previous game.

Sloan had to go; Corbin had to go. KOC rebuilt rapidly after Malone and Stockton left, and put together a perennial playoff team. But there's no question Lindsey has done a better overall job. He's been behind the building of the practice facility and the emphasis on player development. Quin was a genius hire. Rudy and Joe don't become the players they do without Quin and Bryant. Hayward doesn't either, but that's beside the point. Rubio doesn't have a career best shooting year without Snyder. Donovan probably doesn't break out so quickly. The list goes on and on.

 

[Jack Strop]

I'm not seeing where Bjelly has gotten an offer yet from any team?

It was reported he was going to sign an offer sheet with New York. Trying to find the tweet and see who it came from. It was early in the a.m. right after FA opened. I was admittedly a bit bleary-eyed, but I did see it. Maybe an unconfirmed rumor.

Nope, here it is. It's from Woj

Adrian Wojnarowski
‏

@wojespnbot
Jun 24
More
Nemanja Bjelica will sign with the New York Knicks, league sources tell ESPN.

There are two guys I tend to always believe: Woj and Shams.

 

[TheStormofWar]

It was reported he was going to sign an offer sheet with New York.

Link? I can't find anything anywhere.

 

[oneye]

Honestly I think this post is a little laughable. OKC just signed the guy to a max contract, he and Russ are good friends, and I never felt like the team was ever as together or good as you elude to in your posts. There were many times that team looked like it gave up completely playing the Jazz. The money had something to do with it.

As for the Jazz, I trust our management to do what’s right but at some point you do need to take a chance. That will probably be next offseason. I don’t expect much this offseason which is fine. OKC just locked in a ton of money, Houston just committed a 4 year max to CP. Rockets lost Ariza. Jazz faired very well in free agency yesterday and didn’t spend or overspend a dime. At this point if the Jazz bring back the same team I think internal improvements get us quite a bit closer and then go all in on something next offseason or take a chance, make a trade during the season. Jazz got in better shape last night than I thought they’d be.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Its not only about culture. I think this had more to do with what George values.

Sure, he doesn’t want to go to the Lakers if the well is poisoned by the Balls. But choosing to stay with the Thunder is not a move made with championship aspirations.

I think Utah was too much of an unknown for him, and I don’t think the fit was perfect. For one thing, simply moving PG to the 4 makes sense to some fans, but not necessarily to him. In OKC he is the unquestioned 3.

But in the end, he wanted the contract he got more than he wanted to be on a contender.

 

[oneye]

Its not only about culture. I think this had more to do with what George values.

Sure, he doesn’t want to go to the Lakers if the well is poisoned by the Balls. But choosing to stay with the Thunder is not a move made with championship aspirations.

I think Utah was too much of an unknown for him, and I don’t think the fit was perfect. For one thing, simply moving PG to the 4 makes sense to some fans, but not necessarily to him. In OKC he is the unquestioned 3.

But in the end, he wanted the contract he got more than he wanted to be on a contender.

Agreed, he took the money for the most part, which is good for he league and good for small markets tbh.

Utah was a great fit IMO, closer to LA too, but he would have taken a big pay cut to do it and obviously that’s not what he was looking to do. Didn’t even give LA a meeting, and now I think LBJ has even taken a step back and has to be questioning what he does now when PG didn’t sign there and the Spurs not just going to give Kawhi away. If LA ends up with no one, how sweet will it be.

BUT FOR GODS SAKES GET A FEW GUYS EAST PLEASE.

 

[idiot]

I'm not seeing where Bjelly has gotten an offer yet from any team?

He's an RFA -- we're unlikely to hear about any offers until July 7.