CP3 on John Stockton

[One Brow]

Umm... instead of questioning it, why doesn’t CP get some old tapes out and actually see for himself what Stockton was capable of. And it’s different when you didn’t even play against the man. That’s why I always respected Kobe (as much as I hated him) - he is a student of the game. You think Kobe would ever question Stockton’s achievements? Never. Same with Gary Payton. He’s on record saying it was tougher to play against Stockton than MJ.

I also agree here.

 

[8]

There are no downvotes on this site, so I am going to go ahead and say Stockton was nothing special. A regular all star who happened to have played with an all time great scorer for thousands of games, inflating his assists. Probably the most overrated player of all time.

Of course there are no downvotes. Someone who has that many more assists and steals than everyone else who's ever played is clearly special. Who has accomplished indisputably more as a point guard than John Stockton aside from Magic Johnson? Isiah thomas? steph curry?

 

[Alfalfa]

Whoa, you being serious dawg? We already have the wood chipper out for Jazz, do we need to leave it running?

Who knows? Only choice for JFers is to play it safe and freak the **** out.

 

[Alfalfa]

Of course there are no downvotes. Someone who has that many more assists and steals than everyone else who's ever played is clearly special. Who has accomplished indisputably more as a point guard than John Stockton aside from Magic Johnson? Isiah thomas? steph curry?

Which of these players played with a top 5 all time scorer (who happened to be a pf, the perfect position for amassing a ton of assists. Eg Nash) for 1400+ games.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

There are no downvotes on this site, so I am going to go ahead and say Stockton was nothing special. A regular all star who happened to have played with an all time great scorer for thousands of games, inflating his assists. Probably the most overrated player of all time.

This is one of the dumber things I've seen on the site... which is saying something.

He was a bit of a stat compiler, but let's not overlook longevity when considering his career. TS% of 61% for his career... 50% assist percentage. Lots of assists to the mailman don't negate how fuggin good the guy was. Does Magic suck cuz he could feed Worthy/Kareem?

Nothing special... I'll bet the dudes that he gut stomped for 19 years would disagree.

 

[fishonjazz]

Which of these players played with a top 5 all time scorer (who happened to be a pf, the perfect position for amassing a ton of assists. Eg Nash) for 1400+ games.

Since no other point guard played with Malone its impossible to know if another pg would have got the same assists as Stockton did.

What you can do is find individual seasons where a power forward was as prolific a scorer as malone and see if that point guard was able to average 14.5 assists per game and maybe adjust it for pace of play.


Don't forget that Stockton was more than just a guy who passed the ball to Malone btw (which is kinda how you are coming across).

He was extremely efficient shooting/scoring at 52% from the field over his career, with 7 seasons over 40% from three (46.2% in the year 2000 season) 83% from the line for his career, and 55% efg.

He was a fantastic defender and is the all time leader in steals. Best floor general of all time. Great ball handler, great leader, tough as nails, and never missed games which is a skill imo and a good one at that.

Add all that up and he isn't just a guy who happened to play with Malone. He was a special player.


Another thing you could do is look up his replacements for the few games he did miss with injury. Those guys had Malone to pass to. Did they rack up as many assists as Stockton did in those games?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Alfalfa]

This is one of the dumber things I've seen on the site... which is saying something.

He was a bit of a stat compiler, but let's not overlook longevity when considering his career. TS% of 61% for his career... 50% assist percentage. Lots of assists to the mailman don't negate how fuggin good the guy was. Does Magic suck cuz he could feed Worthy/Kareem?

Nothing special... I'll bet the dudes that he gut stomped for 19 years would disagree.

Nothing special as in just an all star, not an all time great. I bet CP would have 20k assists if he played with Karl for as many minutes as Stockton did.

And assists is already the most overrated stat out there.

 

[Alfalfa]

I'll come back to this discussion once I have more time to respond.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'll come back to this discussion once I have more time to respond.

Please don't. For your own sake

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Nothing special as in just an all star, not an all time great. I bet CP would have 20k assists if he played with Karl for as many minutes as Stockton did.

And assists is already the most overrated stat out there.

K... CP3 would get hurt trying to carry John's jock... his longevity is part of his greatness and part of the argument against CP. You want to argue CP's ceiling was better than John's go ahead.

John is an all-time great.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Since no other point guard played with Malone its impossible to know if another pg would have got the same assists as Stockton did.

What you can do is find individual seasons where a power forward was as prolific a scorer as malone and see if that point guard was able to average 14.5 assists per game and maybe adjust it for pace of play.


Don't forget that Stockton was more than just a guy who passed the ball to Malone btw (which is kinda how you are coming across).

He was extremely efficient shooting/scoring at 52% from the field over his career, with 7 seasons over 40% from three (46.2% in the year 2000 season) 83% from the line for his career, and 55% efg.

He was a fantastic defender and is the all time leader in steals. Best floor general of all time. Great ball handler, great leader, tough as nails, and never missed games which is a skill imo and a good one at that.

Add all that up and he isn't just a guy who happened to play with Malone. He was a special player.


Another thing you could do is look up his replacements for the few games he did miss with injury. Those guys had Malone to pass to. Did they rack up as many assists as Stockton did in those games?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

I like that Magic wasn't included because his PF wasn't a top 5 scorer all time... but his PF was good and his center was fuggin Kareem. This is nonsense.

 

[Alfalfa]

I like that Magic wasn't included because his PF wasn't a top 5 scorer all time... but his PF was good and his center was fuggin Kareem. This is nonsense.

PFs are way better than centers at getting you assists. Kareem doing his post moves then taking a hook shot did nothing for Magic's stats. Stockton and Malone PnR is an easy shot or an assist for Stock every other possession.