How white liberals view black voters

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I'm good with that. While I don't mind going over the basis for my beliefs with those inclined to discuss them seriously (as you do from time to time), I don't expect everyone to adopt them. Humans are controlled by our feelings, and we rationalize the world around us to fit into them, most of the time.



Obama's signature policy, the ACA, was one of the most moderate and corporatist ways to get more people health care. If you think of our former deporter-in-chief as anything other than the usual moderate, corporate-owned, PWPBP Democrat, your vision is skewed heavily.

So, why to you think Harris/Klobuchar are to the left of Obama? What are their specific policy proposals that put them there?



The difference between a moderate Democrat and a right-leaning Democrat would be things like de-empahsizing climate science, sexual harrassment, and not supporting the ACA. When I say Manchin is a right-leaning Democrat, I meant that he's further to the right than a moderate Republican (and he is, on many issues).

We are never going to agree. You see ACA as a moderate move. I see it as government getting much farther into an industry I don't want it to be in. Regarding being left of Obama, I don't recall him offering healthcare to undocumented immigrants (which virtually all of the Dem candidates have done). I see this as a bad thing because it signals to people that all you need to do is find a way across our border and you will be taken care of. I see that as a big burden on an already overtaxed system, and also as an illegal immigration incentive that does nobody any good.

All of that said, I'm not going to get into a more detailed debate with you about Dem candidates. I will say that if an actual moderate Dem emerges (someone you would certainly call a right wing Dem) then I will become a potential democratic voter. Until that time I am going to vote third party (not that it matters one iota when casting a vote in Utah).

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

They are NOT the same thing, at all. I'll ask you kindly to stop misrepresenting things I've said. I consider what you're doing as slander. Intentional, with malicious intent.

Many people here know me in real life. The false things you're saying, that you know or should know are false have the potential to do actual harm to my livelihood and well being. I think you should be cautious about the factual nature of your comments going forward. I absolutely will pursue real world legal recourse if you don't.

You are truly a piece of work.

 

[One Brow]

We are never going to agree. You see ACA as a moderate move. I see it as government getting much farther into an industry I don't want it to be in.

Since much of the ACA was written by the health insurance industry, it was very kind to them, and a very moderate and capitalistic way to expand health care.

Regarding being left of Obama, I don't recall him offering healthcare to undocumented immigrants (which virtually all of the Dem candidates have done).

Undocumented immigrants have had health care available since the 1970s, through various section 330 grants at qualifying health care centers. So, I'm not sure what Harris/Klobuchar are offering beyond that. An ID card? A wider network?

I see this as a bad thing because it signals to people that all you need to do is find a way across our border and you will be taken care of. I see that as a big burden on an already overtaxed system, and also as an illegal immigration incentive that does nobody any good.

Sick Mexicans already get pretty good health care in Mexico. Almost none of of the undocumented come to the US to get health care. They come to get jobs and safety.

All of that said, I'm not going to get into a more detailed debate with you about Dem candidates. I will say that if an actual moderate Dem emerges (someone you would certainly call a right wing Dem) then I will become a potential democratic voter. Until that time I am going to vote third party (not that it matters one iota when casting a vote in Utah).

Yeah, Illinois will go for the Democratic candidate regardless of my vote.

 

[Jazzta]

We are never going to agree. You see ACA as a moderate move. I see it as government getting much farther into an industry I don't want it to be in. Regarding being left of Obama, I don't recall him offering healthcare to undocumented immigrants (which virtually all of the Dem candidates have done). I see this as a bad thing because it signals to people that all you need to do is find a way across our border and you will be taken care of. I see that as a big burden on an already overtaxed system, and also as an illegal immigration incentive that does nobody any good.

All of that said, I'm not going to get into a more detailed debate with you about Dem candidates. I will say that if an actual moderate Dem emerges (someone you would certainly call a right wing Dem) then I will become a potential democratic voter. Until that time I am going to vote third party (not that it matters one iota when casting a vote in Utah).

But I’ll rather have the health insurance companies run our health care system right Joe? Because it’s so affordable.

 

[Stoked]

No. Not quite true. I am at a disadvantage. I do not possess Jazzfanz privilege like you and many others do here. So I cannot be held responsible for all my actions. I am oppressed on Jazzfanz.

Where are my award and contributor stickers, that all the regulars got? Thats funny, I seem to remember contributing here for the last 7 years, non stop, no account self deactivations.

Lmfao. Poor oppressed NPC

 

[Gameface]

You are truly a piece of work.

You know what a rock solid defense against slander is? The Truth. If I said the things he continues to post that I said then he has no issue. If he continues to post lies about what I've said, it's called slander. He should stop lying.

I have no idea where NPC might go next, after accusing me of cheering on attacks against police and being sympathetic to convicted murderers. What I do know is that I'm not just going to let him make **** up about me over and over again.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

But I’ll rather have the health insurance companies run our health care system right Joe? Because it’s so affordable.

I'd rather have consumers run it. One of the many reasons that healthcare is expensive is that unlike most items, we don't often shop for, pay for, or even know what the service costs. We allow a health insurance company to stand between us and our healthcare providers. At this point they won't honor the same price for us as they will for the insurance companies even if we go directly. Essentially we've allowed an unknown profit center to step in as the middleman for our healthcare industry. Personally I'd prefer to pay for myself for small expenses and become part of a collective for catastrophic expenses. IMO, anyone who thinks that interjecting government into the middle of healthcare is going to result in price or service improvements hasn't been paying a great deal of attention to what typically happens when government gets involved.

 

[Red]

There is nothing worse than death.

I've always felt that dishonoring one's name is a fate worse then death....

 

[One Brow]

Personally I'd prefer to pay for myself for small expenses and become part of a collective for catastrophic expenses. IMO, anyone who thinks that interjecting government into the middle of healthcare is going to result in price or service improvements hasn't been paying a great deal of attention to what typically happens when government gets involved.

Who runs the collective, and decides which expenses are covered or not?

When you've got a kid whose finger has swelled to twice the normal size, how many different service providers are you planning on visiting before you pay someone, to make sure you get the best price?

Getting health care is very different from buying a TV, car, or home. Sometimes, minutes matter and the patients are not in the place to make calm, rational decisions. What typically happens when the free market dominates health care is that the health care is terrible.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'd rather have consumers run it. One of the many reasons that healthcare is expensive is that unlike most items, we don't often shop for, pay for, or even know what the service costs. We allow a health insurance company to stand between us and our healthcare providers. At this point they won't honor the same price for us as they will for the insurance companies even if we go directly. Essentially we've allowed an unknown profit center to step in as the middleman for our healthcare industry. Personally I'd prefer to pay for myself for small expenses and become part of a collective for catastrophic expenses. IMO, anyone who thinks that interjecting government into the middle of healthcare is going to result in price or service improvements hasn't been paying a great deal of attention to what typically happens when government gets involved.

Who runs the collective, and decides which expenses are covered or not?

When you've got a kid whose finger has swelled to twice the normal size, how many different service providers are you planning on visiting before you pay someone, to make sure you get the best price?

Getting health care is very different from buying a TV, car, or home. Sometimes, minutes matter and the patients are not in the place to make calm, rational decisions. What typically happens when the free market dominates health care is that the health care is terrible.

Both of these are good posts though very different perspectives

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Red]

At least we don't have debtor's prisons anymore....

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/08/medical-bill-debt-collection/596914/

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

What typically happens when the free market dominates health care is that the health care is terrible.

This is absolutely untrue.