Does anyone still like this team?

[LoPo]

If you trade Rudy you likely don't net 3 or 4 switchable defenders that are also averagish on offense. My biggest qualm is that moving Rudy for 3 pieces almost surely moves us closer to the middle and we don't have a cupboard full of assets to help restock... we need to do it quickly imo or else Donovan bails... and now you have spun your wheels for a couple years. I'd just go scorched earth if a change had to be made and focus my efforts on giving it the best chance possible.

Let's just go with this Atlanta scenario of Rudy and Gay for Capella, Collins and Huerter. Capella isn't going to be Rudy, but he will replace some of that production. Collins can play some center while Huerter gives us a much needed additional shooter.

Our closing lineup would have 2 lights out shooters (Bojan and Huerter), two capable shooters (Collins and Royce) with Don running the show. We don't have elite defenders, but we are more balanced in late game situations.

The task would be the deal after the Atlanta deal. Can we turn Conley, Clarkson or anything from the Atlanta deal into a defensive stopper? We need wing defenders. Can we sign one in free agency? Can we groom House and NAW into additional Royces?

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You won't get all that doe. I really think you are looking at Collins/Capela plus their late lotto pick this year. You have to hope like hell you hit a mid first home run on the wing or you are going to get back to mid/high 40s in win total under the best case scenarios.

And we may end up doing the full rebuild when Donovan asks out and whatever you traded Rudy for might still have value... so you might be fine. But the assets lose a little value, so does Donovan, and you lose the couple years of high picks while you tried to be the 8 seed. The end of the lotto or the 8 seed is where 5 year rebuilds become 10 year treadmills.

 

[MTS]

If you trade Rudy you likely don't net 3 or 4 switchable defenders that are also averagish on offense. My biggest qualm is that moving Rudy for 3 pieces almost surely moves us closer to the middle and we don't have a cupboard full of assets to help restock... we need to do it quickly imo or else Donovan bails... and now you have spun your wheels for a couple years. I'd just go scorched earth if a change had to be made and focus my efforts on giving it the best chance possible.

Exactly. If you trade Gobert you might as well go scorched earth. Keeping Mitchell would only be delaying the inevitable and making it harder to rebuild from, while very likely not being a playoff team anyways.

Like, if we're gonna go that route, I'd rather trade Mitchell. His value is probably overrated, whereas we know Gobert's is criminally underrated. Might not even fall back that much given that he'd no longer be here to tank all our close games.

 

[MTS]

We might be the only good team in the league that insists on playing a clear nonshooter in closing situations.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

I know Mitchell's shooting percentages in the clutch are bottom of the league bad, but calling him a nonshooter seems a bit harsh.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Let's just go with this Atlanta scenario of Rudy and Gay for Capella, Collins and Huerter. Capella isn't going to be Rudy, but he will replace some of that production. Collins can play some center while Huerter gives us a much needed additional shooter.

Our closing lineup would have 2 lights out shooters (Bojan and Huerter), two capable shooters (Collins and Royce) with Don running the show. We don't have elite defenders, but we are more balanced in late game situations.

The task would be the deal after the Atlanta deal. Can we turn Conley, Clarkson or anything from the Atlanta deal into a defensive stopper? We need wing defenders. Can we sign one in free agency? Can we groom House and NAW into additional Royces?

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

I highly doubt we'd sneak Huerter out of the deal... could likely add a JC for Bogdan swap, so Rudy/JC for Capela/Collins/Bogey... and maybe a pick. Might be a solid playoff team but not a title team imo. Not every team has to be a contender... if I am Ainge I take all phone calls and just see how far a team might go for Donovan (if breaking up Rudy and Donovan is essential).

 

[LoPo]

Exactly. If you trade Gobert you might as well go scorched earth. Keeping Mitchell would only be delaying the inevitable and making it harder to rebuild from, while very likely not being a playoff team anyways.

Like, if we're gonna go that route, I'd rather trade Mitchell. His value is probably overrated, whereas we know Gobert's is criminally underrated. Might not even fall back that much given that he'd no longer be here to tank all our close games.

That's a great plan if you want to stay mediocre and only regular season relevant.

Gambling on a future built around Mitchell is bold, but could pan out to something we have never had.

You don't win titles built around $40 million offensively limited big men who are 30 or older. If you don't get that or don't agree, I just don't know what else to tell you.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[One Brow]

Bucks have 5 guys who can shoot at least a little and can switch decently.

So, they don't quite fit your requirements.

The Lakers won with 5 switchable guys who could shoot.

So, not contenders this year.

The Warriors play 5 down the stretch who can at least shoot okay and switch great.

So, they only do this from time to time, and not as their full-time scheme.

Phoenix is TBD. Ayton has become a better shooter, but he's no Lopez yet.

So, not Phoenix.

The Celtics are loaded with switchable shooters.

Loaded with, but don't play in the manner you described as their full-time scheme.

Embiid and the 76ers can do it.

Embiid is a switchable big? I've never heard that before.

We might be the only good team in the league that insists on playing a clear nonshooter in closing situations.

Odd how you're having trouble finding one good case of it, though.

 

[LoPo]

I highly doubt we'd sneak Huerter out of the deal... could likely add a JC for Bogdan swap, so Rudy/JC for Capela/Collins/Bogey... and maybe a pick. Might be a solid playoff team but not a title team imo. Not every team has to be a contender... if I am Ainge I take all phone calls and just see how far a team might go for Donovan (if breaking up Rudy and Donovan is essential).

Huerter is a stretch, but Collins' value is buying him low while Capella doesn't have great trade value. The Hawks GM had already mentioned his concern about the luxury. Collins and Capella are long term deals that he might would rather use on the slightly cheaper Rudy.

I think we could get Bogdon pretty easily, but we gotta worry about our luxury situation too.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[LoPo]

So, they don't quite fit your requirements.


So, not contenders this year.


So, they only do this from time to time, and not as their full-time scheme.


So, not Phoenix.


Loaded with, but don't play in the manner you described as their full-time scheme.


Embiid is a switchable big? I've never heard that before.


Odd how you're having trouble finding one good case of it, though.

Every single team I listed plays a closing 5 that can shoot and switch on defense.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[LoPo]

@One Brow

Just watch a good playoff team. Watch what they do down the stretch of games. We don't have the personnel or the system that matches. I'm not telling you something you don't already know. You're just being difficult.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Exactly. If you trade Gobert you might as well go scorched earth. Keeping Mitchell would only be delaying the inevitable and making it harder to rebuild from, while very likely not being a playoff team anyways.

Like, if we're gonna go that route, I'd rather trade Mitchell. His value is probably overrated, whereas we know Gobert's is criminally underrated. Might not even fall back that much given that he'd no longer be here to tank all our close games.

The other advantage of going scorched earth is you can load up on draft capital by moving Royce, Bogey, JC, Mike... it opens up the kind of deals you can hunt for them. You'd also likely kick the can down the road on the 2024 pick we owe OKC since it is top 10 protected.

It depends on the offers of course.

 

[MTS]

Lopo's whole argument seems to be under the strong implication that our offense doesn't work with Gobert.

We posted God-tier offensive ratings in the last two series we got eliminated in. He is living in a different reality.