Chargers Jazz Angels
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My money is on Clarkson. As far as opening night goes.
Who will be the starting point guard on opening night?
- Thread starter Jingled
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HermanG
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Out of his 22 games 10 were against top teams (2x Celtics, 2x Lakers, 2x Kings, Suns, Nuggets, Bucks, Heat).
Dunn also played with worse players. He played 164 minutes with Dok (vs 140 with Kessler and 170 with Markkanen), and the players he played over 200 minutes with were Ochai (262), Tec (233), JTA (222), Jones (213), KO (213).
No one really tries in those games. It's a lot of blowouts and games were the other team isn't trying or even worse actively trying to lose were you can put up stats.
HermanG
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Which of those games were like that though? Nuggets game I remember they played without intensity and even played their starters sparingly and did that against others as well, but some of those like Miami, Suns and Lakers were among the end of season tryhards.
HermanG
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Oh and another point. Almost half of THT minutes came from those games, and while he was able to sweeten his counting stats his advanced stats still ended up as worst of the bunch.... inlucluding having less than half the WS of Dunn.
Yeah, it helped THT too. THT also played when it wasnt like that. But like you said, over half of his minutes were not during that time. So my point remains and you made no point.
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Oh brother. Do you have amnesia? Stay off the weeeeeeed my brother
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And the Lakers game at the end was not try hard. They played like zombies until they had to turn it on to win the game.
HermanG
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Yeah I have amnesia. Now please refresh my memory.
Watch post trade deadline basketball. A large portion of teams are actively trying to lose and the teams that are trying to win are looking at the Jazz as an active rest day.
HermanG
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Stop with these flat generic "wisdoms".
You say you are mr objective but now you are arguing against numbers with "eye ball test" and "street wisdom".
Oh btw that actively trying to lose did for sure apply to one of our opponents more than any other... Portland. How did that turn out?
Sir these games were over 4-5 months ago. I'm sorry I cant give you specific details, but the past 20 years of my basketball watching career I can tell you that generally the post ASB there are a ton of wonky things going on.
As far as the Portland game you want to cherry pick..... are you talking about their March win over the Jazz 127-115?
I can tell you what happened: Their management immediately pulled Dame for the rest of the season after that game because they didnt want to win but probably had to play Dame that game becasue he was demanding to do so.
Obviously not every minute of every game is a cakewalk. I'm not saying that, but on average post ASB minutes are much much much easier. There is zero pressure on the Jazz players to win games. Minutes are given out more freely without having to look over your shoulder to get pulled if you arent doing the right things. Teams are tanking. Teams are pulling players due to "health". Teams are resting players. Teams are only trying for 1 quarter because that's all they have to do to beat your team. Etc.
If you want to argue that the post ASB minutes are the same as any other minutes, go ahead and make your ****** argument.
SoberasHotRod
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I think the most fair thing with Dunn is to be cautiously optimistic. He seemed to have fixed a lot of the things that had prevented him from being a rotation player, but our evidence to this point is G-League and games with us where we were actively trying to lose. I personally don't feel like that data is nothing, but according to one of our assistant coaches (per Locke) there is nothing that we can take away from the last half of the season.
Handlogten's Heros
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He also was just fine as a rotation player when healthy. So some natural progression and some health... I don't see him being super duper flukey... like he's a rotation player when healthy but may not live up to his numbers.
If he can raise his 3pt attempts to at least 4 attempts per 36 and maintain an above 35% 3pt %, I would be more optimistic. That would be about double the rate he took them with the Jazz in his last stint.
That's just the issue with Sexton or Dunn starting. They are both hesitant 3pt shooters. Even if they are accurate, you can easily sag off them and recover to prevent an attempt because they dont want to take those shots. Yes they both have skills/abilities to make up for that lack of shooting, but if you want your starting unit to run properly, I dont see that happening with either player and that's probably why the starting backcourt will be Clarkson/Ochai.
HermanG
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Im not. Im just a facts guy who posted stats that looked curious.
But lets assume you are right and the post ASB Jazz opponents were mostly jogging. Then why are THT numbers worst of them all?
He shot 10% above his career average from the filed and 16% above his career average from 3. That's kind of the definition of super duper flukey.
Handlogten's Heros
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Random name that went through my brain Terrance Mann. He's not a point guardy point guard. But as a backcourt ball handler with some size who can be a defender and handle some light playmaking duties without hurting the spacing. He also may have more to show outside of LA but is not as young as some think (he's 27 in a month).
Sixers may want draft capital rather than players as much as that seems counterintuitive given that they should be win now. The problem is Morey is all about stars so may prefer a draft pick heavy package with some useable players instead of solid rotation pieces. The thought being he could flip those picks later for a star. LA can offer two picks but say they offer one, Powell, and send us Mann for a pick. I'm not in love with giving up one of the unprotected picks for Mann but the Lakers pick seems like a solid value. It seems really meh/practical to use a pick on a guy like Mann who may not have much upside but is just really solid.
IDK in a pg-less type system I think Mann can masquerade as a pg and maybe he has a little more juice even though he's really kinda in his prime.
Sixers may want draft capital rather than players as much as that seems counterintuitive given that they should be win now. The problem is Morey is all about stars so may prefer a draft pick heavy package with some useable players instead of solid rotation pieces. The thought being he could flip those picks later for a star. LA can offer two picks but say they offer one, Powell, and send us Mann for a pick. I'm not in love with giving up one of the unprotected picks for Mann but the Lakers pick seems like a solid value. It seems really meh/practical to use a pick on a guy like Mann who may not have much upside but is just really solid.
IDK in a pg-less type system I think Mann can masquerade as a pg and maybe he has a little more juice even though he's really kinda in his prime.
Oh give me a break dude.
If you wanted to do an honest Dunn vs THT stats comparisson you'd measure both of their post ASB stats. And even that would still be skewed more towards Dunn because THT didnt play in the final 3 cupcake games.
The Clippers wont include Mann to get Harden, so keep dreaming.
And he absolutely can not masquerade as a PG.