Walker Kessler Bench Appreciation Thread

[fishonjazz]

One thing seems certain: Cy bears no responsibility for creating the hostility he feels around here. Y'all were born hating him. Must be in your genes.

Exactly. No responsibility at all. He is always willing to engage without insults, quick to see the other side of an argument, readily admits when he is wrong, and often apologizes in those rare instances when he comes across a bit rude.
The perfect poster to discuss disagreements with really.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

I should have said 7 footers. (That's what I meant. True bigs. Kick it by the rim bigs that have to guard the perimeter occasionally. I wouldn't include Draymond here)

I would say he is a 7. Better than both Lopez bros. Better than jokic. Better than Embiid. Better than Capela. Better than Allen. Better than porzingas. Worse than AD. Worse than gobert.

Thing is I think every single person on that list is a poor option to defend fox, Steph, Lillard, etc on the perimeter which was my point.

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I would say a 4.

 

[fishonjazz]

I would say a 4.

Thats fine.
The real issue i was having with tremendous downside was him saying that kessler can't be considered a great defender until he is a good perimeter defender.

If that's the case then none of those guys can be considered great defenders as none of them are good perimeter defenders. Rudy included. I watched every game Rudy ever played in his time with the jazz. This includes summer league, international play, pre season, playoffs, scrimmages.

He stayed in the paint as often as possible. Rarely defended the perimeter unless he absolutely had to. This was by design of course. His coaches would do anything they could to keep him in the paint where he belongs. Conversely the coaches of the opposition would try their damndest to get him out on the defender guarding a smaller quicker player. Why would Rudy's coach try to prevent him from guarding these little dudes on the perimeter? Why would the opponent try to get him out there? Well that's obvious. Dudes as big as Rudy, Kessler, Lopez, Capela, Embiid, etc are not good at guarding small fast dudes on the perimeter.

So it's stupid to say things like Kessler isn't a great defender because he isn't good at guarding the perimeter. Dudes built like Kessler aren't and never will be. And he rarely needs to. When he does he is adequate.

It would be like saying Marcus smart won't ever be a great defender until he is good at guarding Embiid and jokic in the paint.

It's silly and just tremendous downside throwing some negativity out there and seeing if it will stick.

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[framer]

Conversely, I think Taylor Hendricks has great potential in defending the parameter. . .

 

[fishonjazz]

Conversely, I think Taylor Hendricks has great potential in defending the parameter. . .

Agreed.

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[HermanG]

One thing seems certain: Cy bears no responsibility for creating the hostility he feels around here. Y'all were born hating him. Must be in your genes.

His ability to win 1 vs the world battles in his own head is unrivalled. The world loses every time.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Thats fine.
The real issue i was having with tremendous downside was him saying that kessler can't be considered a great defender until he is a good perimeter defender.

Incorrect. I said you have to be able to defend more effectively inside whole the perimeter area if you want to be a fixture in the NBA All-Defense team or even a DPOY candidate (which is a thing people have been throwing around here).

That is just a fact. Obviously Kessler can't become a "good" perimeter defender, he's massive.

 

[latin jazz]

Walker had a player where he could have gone through Wiseman. Maybe he couldn't dunk it, but he could have forced contact for a foul instead he tried to flail a layup around him that would have made THT blush.

This was in the 4Q right? Rather that creating contact he went to his left for a terrible off-balance layup that didn't touch the rim. I wanted to pull my hair out. You either go strong for a dunk or just shoot your FTs, even at a 50% rate. Def needs to work a lot on this. Also his screens.

 

[hgb]

Ok Fish, I will play along with your game.

One a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the worst perimeter defensive big (let's say Jokic) and 10 being the best perimeter defensive big (let's say prime Draymond) where do you think Walker lies? And what bigs do you think he is comparable to with perimeter defensive ability?

I'd go with 4 on this scale, which I think is acceptable for a 2nd year elite rim protector. He wasn't a 4 last year IMHO, so he's improving. And I'd probably put Rudy (Jazz Rudy, don't see him too much now) as a 7 or something.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This was in the 4Q right? Rather that creating contact he went to his left for a terrible off-balance layup that didn't touch the rim. I wanted to pull my hair out. You either go strong for a dunk or just shoot your FTs, even at a 50% rate. Def needs to work a lot on this. Also his screens.

Think it was the first half but could be mistaken

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'd go with 4 on this scale, which I think is acceptable for a 2nd year elite rim protector. He wasn't a 4 last year IMHO, so he's improving. And I'd probably put Rudy (Jazz Rudy, don't see him too much now) as a 7 or something.

Yeah, by no means is Walkers perimeter D unacceptable. It's probably right where it should be at this point

But if the Jazz were in a playoff series most playoff teams would expose him with his current level. He needs to clean up a lot of things. Hardy does a great job of limiting how much exposure he has out there, but the playoffs would make it difficult to avoid

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'd go with 4 on this scale, which I think is acceptable for a 2nd year elite rim protector. He wasn't a 4 last year IMHO, so he's improving. And I'd probably put Rudy (Jazz Rudy, don't see him too much now) as a 7 or something.

And yeah, Id say peak Rudy was a 7 and he's probably a 5 now, maybe a 6 if he's very motivated (he did some nasty closeout work on Chet in their first matchup)