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Kinda funny how our young guys...

The Thriller

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
Interesting to me, that none of our "Big 3" got into the allstar game (Millsap, Jefferson, and Harris). It's also interesting to me that of the 3 who did participate, they're all young and hardly involved in our team.

Hayward? Never comes off curls and is rarely involved in the offense. Favors? Gets less than 20 mins per game... Lately, he has been lucky to get 15.... Evans? Has more DNPs than anything else.

In my opinion, we need to look at deals to make room for these young guys to see what they can do.

We need to seriously upgrade our coaching to take advantage of our talent.

There's no reason why Hayward shouldn't be coming off screens, nailing midrange jumpers, and being as much a part of this offense as Rip was for Detroit.
There's no reason why Favors should only be getting 15-20 mins. That kid is our (only) franchise player. Play him.
Evans? I think he's one of the reasons why we were having some success early on. He's a guaranteed 4-6 points with his dunks/alleyoops. He's always a threat on the glass and can block shots. I'd play him 10 mins just to get the crowd going and change momentum with his hustle plays. And who knows? Maybe with time he becomes the new "Millsap." As I remember, Millsap in his first year or two didn't have a very good shot nor a single post up move. But at least he was given PT to hustle, block shots, and to rebound. He changed the momentum of the game with his play. With time, perhaps Jeremy develops into a bigtime player?

START THE YOUTH MOVEMENT ALREADY!
 
The Thriller said:
Interesting to me, that none of our "Big 3" got into the allstar game (Millsap, Jefferson, and Harris). It's also interesting to me that of the 3 who did participate, they're all young and hardly involved in our team.

Hayward? Never comes off curls and is rarely involved in the offense. Favors? Gets less than 20 mins per game... Lately, he has been lucky to get 15.... Evans? Has more DNPs than anything else.

In my opinion, we need to look at deals to make room for these young guys to see what they can do.

We need to seriously upgrade our coaching to take advantage of our talent.

There's no reason why Hayward shouldn't be coming off screens, nailing midrange jumpers, and being as much a part of this offense as Rip was for Detroit.
There's no reason why Favors should only be getting 15-20 mins. That kid is our (only) franchise player. Play him.
Evans? I think he's one of the reasons why we were having some success early on. He's a guaranteed 4-6 points with his dunks/alleyoops. He's always a threat on the glass and can block shots. I'd play him 10 mins just to get the crowd going and change momentum with his hustle plays. And who knows? Maybe with time he becomes the new "Millsap." As I remember, Millsap in his first year or two didn't have a very good shot nor a single post up move. But at least he was given PT to hustle, block shots, and to rebound. He changed the momentum of the game with his play. With time, perhaps Jeremy develops into a bigtime player?

START THE YOUTH MOVEMENT ALREADY!
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Evans defends absolutely woefully against bigger players. Plus, where do we even fit him in? Evans will take away development time from Favors, unless you either play Favors at the 5 (which would take away development time from Kanter); or you play Evans at the 3, which would probably result in our bench being piss-poor defensively.

Hayward not getting any sort of playas drawn up for him, and Favors not averaging >20mpg is seriously embarrassing, though.
 
dalamon said:
Evans defends absolutely woefully against bigger players. Plus, where do we even fit him in? Evans will take away development time from Favors, unless you either play Favors at the 5 (which would take away development time from Kanter); or you play Evans at the 3, which would probably result in our bench being piss-poor defensively.

Hayward not getting any sort of playas drawn up for him, and Favors not averaging >20mpg is seriously embarrassing, though.
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Evans can't play the 3? And while playing the 4, you need to use him in spots, just as we did Millsap his rookie/sophomore years. I've seen some horrific strategies employed by Corbin where he's placed Evans on a pretty good low post player. I think it was against Dallas or Portland. It was stupid. Ya gotta use him wisely. There's no reason why he shouldn't be playing 10 mins at the 3-4. Throw him out there to block a few shots and get a few dunks.

And why would playing Favors at the 5 sometimes take time away from Kanter? Taking PT away from the youth is exactly the opposite of what I was suggesting. Take PT away from the older players. Jefferson playing less is a good thing.
 
Wish Kanter could get more burn .. especially in a 'fun' environment ..

I agree with all of the OP, except a tiny bit ..

Hayward is getting the minutes, he has to make the most of it.
 
Big Al is the main reason three of our youngs arent getting the necessary burn!

If we trade Al, Favors and Kanter will get roughly 30 min per. Also with Al gone it puts more responsibility on Hayward to be a scorer!

But we also need to let burks play. At first I was just happy to see him get minutes and he played well mixed with rookie mistakes. But the last couple of game he has been our best SG!

Solution: trade Al and Howard! This opens up time for the youngs depending on who we get in return!
 
You do know the vets couldn't play in the rising stars game, and it would be quite laughable to see Big Al in a dunk contest, also don't forget since this whole argument is the vets weren't good enough to get into the All-star weakened, neither did Kanter or Burks.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
You do know the vets couldn't play in the rising stars game, and it would be quite laughable to see Big Al in a dunk contest, also don't forget since this whole argument is the vets weren't good enough to get into the All-star weakened, neither did Kanter or Burks.
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But with PT and an offense designed to take advantage of them, they might have. You really don't know. That's the point. We need to give these young players more burn. Not only more PT, but redesign this offense. Run high P&R designed to get Burks to the basket. Run Hayward constantly through picks to get him open looks/curls. Constantly post up Favors and Kanter. Launch passes into the stratosphere for Evans to throw down.

No more iso of Jefferson/Millsap 20 feet away from the basket. No more walking the ball up wasting 20 seconds (Harris). No more throw the ball inside to Jefferson and everyone else stand around. No more of Hayward dribbling out of desperation baseline and getting caught up in the air with no place to go. No more watching Chucker and Howard chucking the ball every time they touch it.

We've seen two years now of the team designed for Al, Millsap, and Harris. Not only has it been a team to fail to make the playoffs, but it's not very entertaining.

The vets have had their chance. Give it to the young guys now. We're not making the playoffs anyway... And even if we did, I'd take the draft pick over an embarrassing sweep against the Spurs, Thunder, or Lakers.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
You do know the vets couldn't play in the rising stars game, and it would be quite laughable to see Big Al in a dunk contest, also don't forget since this whole argument is the vets weren't good enough to get into the All-star weakened, neither did Kanter or Burks.
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shush ... we don't need KOC posting in this thread.
 
The Thriller said:
But with PT and an offense designed to take advantage of them, they might have. You really don't know. That's the point. We need to give these young players more burn. Not only more PT, but redesign this offense. Run high P&R designed to get Burks to the basket. Run Hayward constantly through picks to get him open looks/curls. Constantly post up Favors and Kanter. Launch passes into the stratosphere for Evans to throw down.

No more iso of Jefferson/Millsap 20 feet away from the basket. No more walking the ball up wasting 20 seconds (Harris). No more throw the ball inside to Jefferson and everyone else stand around. No more of Hayward dribbling out of desperation baseline and getting caught up in the air with no place to go. No more watching Chucker and Howard chucking the ball every time they touch it.

We've seen two years now of the team designed for Al, Millsap, and Harris. Not only has it been a team to fail to make the playoffs, but it's not very entertaining.

The vets have had their chance. Give it to the young guys now. We're not making the playoffs anyway... And even if we did, I'd take the draft pick over an embarrassing sweep against the Spurs, Thunder, or Lakers.
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Been saying this since last summer practically.
 
This is why I do the proposed trade for Marvin Williams. It moves big a Jefferson and frees up time for favors, kanter and Evans. Improves the 3 and our shooting. We would get hinrich to play pg. it is a win win.
 
Agreed. Actually Hayward has benn hitting the curl shot when given a chance

Feel bad for Hayward after all the props he got from national media this weekend, looks like Ty will bench him for Howard


It is inexcusable our last game where the last 6 mins were literally all al.
 
spycam1 said:
Been saying this since last summer practically.
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The writing was on the wall ever since DWill was shipped out of town. We are a rebuilding team. I wish that we were just a retooling team but the Vets that we do have don't have the ability to carry a team to the playoffs.

Jefferson has been to the postseason one time, and that was his rookie year.
Harris made it to the playoffs three different time but they were all when he was playing in Dallas. When Harris did make an all-star team his team didn't even make it to the playoffs.
Millsap is a great teammate and a "glue" guy but he was never the reason that the Jazz made it to the postseason.
Howard has been to the playoffs six times. Again, all with Dallas.
Bell (even with as good as he has been playing) has been six times. Twice with Philly back in Iversons playing days. Once with Dallas, and three times with the Nash/Stoudemire Suns.

With the core of vets that we have I don't see the Jazz getting to the playoffs. Everyone with playoff experience has been basically a role player when they got there. As has been mentioned several times by many different people, we do not have a legitimate scorer/go to guy when things get tough. I have been impressed with Jefferson's improvement passing out of a double or triple team but when it is crunch time he ignores that and still tries to do everything bu himself.

I am a Jazz fan through and through and losing is acceptable to me if the future of the team is getting a minimum of 20 minute per guy. Right now we are losing and with the exception of Hayward, everyone is getting under 15 minutes per game.

Like I said, the writing has been on the wall for a while. I will still be patient until the trade deadline. I trust that KOC see the writing and he is going to make some hard move that free time for the young guys. Be prepared everyone, we will have to take on some salary in order to move the biggest problems on this team.

/off my soapbox now
 
The Thriller said:
But with PT and an offense designed to take advantage of them, they might have. You really don't know. That's the point. We need to give these young players more burn. Not only more PT, but redesign this offense. Run high P&R designed to get Burks to the basket. Run Hayward constantly through picks to get him open looks/curls. Constantly post up Favors and Kanter. Launch passes into the stratosphere for Evans to throw down.

No more iso of Jefferson/Millsap 20 feet away from the basket. No more walking the ball up wasting 20 seconds (Harris). No more throw the ball inside to Jefferson and everyone else stand around. No more of Hayward dribbling out of desperation baseline and getting caught up in the air with no place to go. No more watching Chucker and Howard chucking the ball every time they touch it.

We've seen two years now of the team designed for Al, Millsap, and Harris. Not only has it been a team to fail to make the playoffs, but it's not very entertaining.

The vets have had their chance. Give it to the young guys now. We're not making the playoffs anyway... And even if we did, I'd take the draft pick over an embarrassing sweep against the Spurs, Thunder, or Lakers.
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with the circumstances surrounding this condensed shortened season, there isn't much practice time, where young players gain trust, gain trust, gain comfort, fine tune their game for the NBA, and earn playing time. They may not get the minutes we want,but they do get important minutes. I expected Hayward and Favors to get what they are, Kanter is a bit of a pleasant surprise, and Burks is starting to crack the rotation. Another thing to consider is with the condensed season, it may be strategy to limit the young players minutes as it does take some time to get used to the rigors of an NBA schedule. Rookies do tend to see a drop off in production in the second half due to fatigue.
 
PKM said:
Wish Kanter could get more burn .. especially in a 'fun' environment ..

I agree with all of the OP, except a tiny bit ..

Hayward is getting the minutes, he has to make the most of it.
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As a side note, I would like to see Hayward get more of his minutes when Jefferson is not on the court. If Hayward was the first starter off the floor it might help him to be the leader of the young guys. When the offense truly runs through Hayward, the offense seems to run better and seems to be more efficient.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
with the circumstances surrounding this condensed shortened season, there isn't much practice time, where young players gain trust, gain trust, gain comfort, fine tune their game for the NBA, and earn playing time.
Click to expand...

You takin' bout practice? Not the game? Practice?
 
I am as frustrated as most of you with the lack of playing time for the young guns. The only explanation is that KOC and Ty know that if they play the young guys then they will make the playoffs. I think this is their way of tanking the season so we can continue to draft young guys. Ultimately, KOC and TY want to have a bench full of young players so they don't have to play anyone.

The Jazz will just start forfeiting games because the young guys are not ready to play. Games will just consist of the young guys signing autographs, dunk contest and the "Bear" doing his thing. Greg Miller loves this because he won't have to pay the guys MAX salaries. I can't think of any other reasonable reason why the young guys shouldn't play over the vets. All you have to do is look at our record to know that.

I am sure if Kanter and Burks got 20+ minutes they would have made the Rising stars All-star game.
 
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