Depth Chart
- Thread starter Dr. Jones
- Start date
just because
Well-Known Member
For a 13th guy, what about that Gansey kid out of WV? Some "experts" had the jazz picking him in the first round a few years ago. He's playing for Dallas in their summer league this year. He's 7 for 12 from 3 so far in 3 games.
DWill_Gr8tness
Member
First need is Bigs, Second is definitely Wings
KM32MVP
Well-Known Member
Mr. Because, we'll get along great.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
CJ and AK need to start. Who finishes is open for debate.
My bet is AK, Bell and when healthy Okur gets in there starting ASAP. Okur will take Milsap's place.
Price is fine at the back-up PG in fact I think he is better than what most people are giving him credit for on here. My opinion is the Jazz still need an outside shooter we lost 2, Matthews and Korver and only gained one in Bell. I don't count Howard yet, it would be nice to get another outside wing player.
Price is fine at the back-up PG in fact I think he is better than what most people are giving him credit for on here. My opinion is the Jazz still need an outside shooter we lost 2, Matthews and Korver and only gained one in Bell. I don't count Howard yet, it would be nice to get another outside wing player.
Egg zackly
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Sloan is going to tweak this lineup a few times. I think Bell is likely to start. AK, too. I just hope that they bring Memo off of the bench from here on out and try to find 10 minutes a game for Fes. I don't see a recovering Memo getting any more than 20-23 minutes a game, MAX. That should leave some scraps for him.
The backup PG is a sore spot, to be sure. It would be made much better if either AK and/or Hayward can handle some of the assist load while Price is more of a defender and occasional scorer. AK can certainly do this when healthy and willing. Once Hayward develops this ability (#fingers crossed) the pressure on this aspect of our offense will noticeably decrease.
The backup PG is a sore spot, to be sure. It would be made much better if either AK and/or Hayward can handle some of the assist load while Price is more of a defender and occasional scorer. AK can certainly do this when healthy and willing. Once Hayward develops this ability (#fingers crossed) the pressure on this aspect of our offense will noticeably decrease.
Jefferson-Millsap as starting C/PF will again be undersized at 6-10/6-8, if that still needs to be pointed out. Sap will have to come off the bench again (if he isn't traded for a defensive center). Agreed that Okur should come off the bench.
KOC really needs to get a starting defensive C and maximize Jefferson at PF. That would make it a home run of an offseason and the spot much more needed than a backup PG.
Start CJ at SG and AK at SF. That would make the Jazz long straightaway at both wing positions. Bring Bell off the bench and he can finish some games if needed.
I think Jerry has no idea who is going to start until they go through training camp, see what kind of shape people are in, who has improved, how players gel playing together, etc. There has been quite a bit of turn-over with key players this year.
If CJ is in great shape and looks like the All-Star some people thought he'd become, he'll get the start. If AK all of a sudden can shoot, and he plays well off or AJ, he may start. If Hayward kicks everyone's a** with his passing and 'intangibles' he might even start.
If Memo is healthy and in shape, he could still start. It also wouldn't surprise me if Memo gets some minutes at the PF this year too, he's really a stretch 4 who can create space for Jefferson.
If CJ is in great shape and looks like the All-Star some people thought he'd become, he'll get the start. If AK all of a sudden can shoot, and he plays well off or AJ, he may start. If Hayward kicks everyone's a** with his passing and 'intangibles' he might even start.
If Memo is healthy and in shape, he could still start. It also wouldn't surprise me if Memo gets some minutes at the PF this year too, he's really a stretch 4 who can create space for Jefferson.
We don't need another wing player. How many can we have, really? We did fine in play-offs from the wings spot without even AK. So, we lost Matthews and Korver, and gained Bell/Hayward. Wes was a rookie too last year.
NotDeadYet
Well-Known Member
I've read where CJ is pretty bad defensively at SG. Has he improved? Dunno.
Hayward has been evaluated as slow afoot for a SG, which causes me concern. Maybe the Jazz figure Hayward, who is a very smart big-effort guy, will improve enough on D to play SG. Offensively, he'd present a matchup problem there with his 6'8" frame.
Bell of course is top-notch.
Maybe Jeffers, who can defend but needs more seasoning, will be improved and get more PT.
It would be nice to have a better backup PG as noted but, I doubt anything happens.
One other good thing about Jefferson is the fact he embraces the idea of playing both C and PF. Never under-estimate the value of being able to play multiple positions. Boozer hated playing C when Millsap came in the game and Okur was out.
So, here's a roadmap of our players and positions they can play. Coach will figure out in practices who starts and what combos work. Besides, these get adjusted depending on different matchups with different opponents:
Deron Williams - PG, SG (when he and Price or Gaines play together)
Ronnie Price - PG, SG (when we go really small; SG is his 'natural' position)
Sundiata Gaines - PG (I'm interested to see if he's improved his game-management; we know he can run and shoot!)
Raja Bell - SG
Othyus Jeffers - SG (About same size as Raja. It'll be interesting to see if he's improved in the off-season; a hard working defender)
CJ Miles - SF, SG (questionable D at SG)
Gordon Hayward - SF, SG (we'll see how his D develops; offensively he's fine at both, IMO)
Andre Kirilenko - SF, PF (at SF he's mainly a passer; lateral footspeed a bit clutsy for SF. Can't play major minutes at PF, although he has added some weight)
Jeremy Evans - SF, PF (too light for much work at PF, but got plenty of length)
Paul Millsap - PF, C (only C when we go really small)
Al Jefferson - C, PF (equally effective at either, IMO)
Mehmut Okur - C
K. Fesenko - C
Hayward has been evaluated as slow afoot for a SG, which causes me concern. Maybe the Jazz figure Hayward, who is a very smart big-effort guy, will improve enough on D to play SG. Offensively, he'd present a matchup problem there with his 6'8" frame.
Bell of course is top-notch.
Maybe Jeffers, who can defend but needs more seasoning, will be improved and get more PT.
It would be nice to have a better backup PG as noted but, I doubt anything happens.
One other good thing about Jefferson is the fact he embraces the idea of playing both C and PF. Never under-estimate the value of being able to play multiple positions. Boozer hated playing C when Millsap came in the game and Okur was out.
So, here's a roadmap of our players and positions they can play. Coach will figure out in practices who starts and what combos work. Besides, these get adjusted depending on different matchups with different opponents:
Deron Williams - PG, SG (when he and Price or Gaines play together)
Ronnie Price - PG, SG (when we go really small; SG is his 'natural' position)
Sundiata Gaines - PG (I'm interested to see if he's improved his game-management; we know he can run and shoot!)
Raja Bell - SG
Othyus Jeffers - SG (About same size as Raja. It'll be interesting to see if he's improved in the off-season; a hard working defender)
CJ Miles - SF, SG (questionable D at SG)
Gordon Hayward - SF, SG (we'll see how his D develops; offensively he's fine at both, IMO)
Andre Kirilenko - SF, PF (at SF he's mainly a passer; lateral footspeed a bit clutsy for SF. Can't play major minutes at PF, although he has added some weight)
Jeremy Evans - SF, PF (too light for much work at PF, but got plenty of length)
Paul Millsap - PF, C (only C when we go really small)
Al Jefferson - C, PF (equally effective at either, IMO)
Mehmut Okur - C
K. Fesenko - C
Whats the fascination with this starting defensive/shotblocking center? I mean, didn't we have enough with Ostertag? We have a 6-10 power guy in the middle now, who gets 20 and 10 from the position and blocks 1.6 shots per 35 minutes. So, you get a better shot blocker, who will give us 2bpg (0.4 more), while giving up 10 points and 3 boards in the process from the position as compared to Jefferson. Al and Paul are our #2 and #3 guys (Millsap already averaged 18 and 11 as a starter when Booz was out and put up similar numbers in play-offs). They need to start together. Millsap and Booz did not work out, because Booz is just not a C. He is smaller than Al, and he is not a purely inside player Al is, who can bother/block shots. Al can do that (1.6 bpg per 35 is a very good number for a C, plus he actually clogs the lane and alters/challenges shots). I agree with KOC that we need a shot blocking big center as a situational back-up. Which is why it is actually important to resign Fess. But we have our starting front court rock solid with Al and Millsap. It's not like before, when with Booz and Memo we didn't have anyone to challenge shots. We got Al now, and that makes a huge difference.
How did that Jefferson-Love C/PF frontcourt work out for Minnesota? (and Love has an inch or so over Sap) AJ-Sap at C/PF would be undersized at those positions. Combine that with Deron and Sloan, that's fine if you only want to make the playoffs. But again not a threat to the Lakers.
The Jazz need a 6-11 or better starting defensive center to maximize Jefferson as a big-ish 6-10 260 PF. KOC has done a good job this summer but he's still at third base and needs that other guy to make this a home run of an offseason.
As to Ostertag, the problem was not that he was big and actually blocked shots, it was that he was clumsy and had butter fingers. If he was more coordinated, he'd be like a Mutombo. And if Malone had a Mutombo alongside him, damn. But how far would the S&M Jazz had gone if they had started Karl at C and say Malik Rose at PF? Jefferson isn't Malone and there's no Mutombo out there but somebody taller/bigger than a Malik Rose-type is required.
Love and Al did not work out not because of 1 inch of height, but because of lack of speed. That's why you seen Kahn trading for Beasley: much smaller PF, who is mobile. That the problem we had: when Okur and Booz were on the floor: we had no mobility and no shot blocking/altering presence. When Booz and Millsap were on the floor, we had no inside shot altering presence, and size was pretty small too. Now, with Al and Millsap, we are bigger, and more importantly finally have inside presence defensively and have ability to discourage teams from penetrating because of Al's shot blocking ability. We also don't lack in speed as with Memo/Booz starting line-up, because Jefferson/Millsap are a lot faster and Millsap will be guarding the quicker player, while Al providing inside presence.
True, there will be occasions when we want to put a long shot blocker on the floor, and that's where Fess comes in. But that does not mean we need a STARTING C, who is 6-11 or better. We have a center who is 6-10, an inch smaller, but has 7-3 wingspan, is inside presence, and blocks 1.6 shots in 35 mins. We can have a huge 7 footer who can block shots (Fess) on the bench.
In this line up (Rose/Karl) we have no one who is a shot blocking/altering inside presence. In our current starting line up, we have a 6-10 C, who is.
Jefferson blocks some shots but he's not known as a defensive anchor. Gasol is taller, blocks more shots but making him start at center and getting a 6-8 PF alongside him isn't LA's formula for domination. I'd like Jefferson to guard Gasol and a starting defensive center on Bynum, or vice versa. But as it is, it's going to be Jefferson on Bynum, Millsap on Gasol -- how's that going to work out?
Fes is big but doesn't really know how to play basketball. He's okay as a back-up or 3rd stringer but against LA, a situational sub won't do because those towers are the 'situation' all game long.
Even if Karl could've blocked that super 1.6 blocks a game, you still wouldn't have started him at C and gotten a Malik Rose-type as starting PF. Just like Malone, the Jazz must maximize Jefferson's potential as a good-sized PF and get him a defensive center. If KOC doesn't get that starting defensive center, he would have had a good but incomplete offseason. If KOC does get that, I bet we all rejoice and dream big.