Seeing AL Objectively - SLCdunk article

[theNBAnerd]

Thanks for answering again. I didn't want to sift through pages and pages of other threads to get your answers. So i'll rep you for taking the time.

One more thing that I know you have gone over (and because I respect your POV). From what I have seen of the offseason moves it that the reason they are building the offense around a player like Jefferson is that he is the only person the the team that commands a double team. And that is what you have to have to get the defense to move were you can get open looks. I remember the end of the Orlando game in OT were Jefferson scored in a one on one situation and forced Nelson to double the next time he got the ball in the post. Pass out to Harris swing to Hayward hits the 3. Next time Nelson doubles again pass out to Harris, another 3 game over. Jefferson seemed more willing to pass moving toward the end of the season and now that we have the shooters around him does this possibly take away the grinding halt in his game?

Video of the game I am talking about:

Jefferson was hitting that night. (so this isn't the case all the time) If you noticed the P&R with Favors were Harris hits him on the post worked because they were doubling Al even without the ball. Thats why Favors was able to walk to the rim. I don't know that this is the mold we want but is seems to me this game is what the FO is trying to accomplish with there moves.

yeah i'm intimately aware of this game from my al study i did. and i'm not going to try to argue against it, it really was a great game. he had a few games in april where he was playing much better, and it was at just the right time for the jazz. no argument there.

but i will just say that this game looks a lot more like an outlier than the new version of a jefferson that suddenly gets the offensive schemes. he didn't start passing better, he just had ONE game (and i think it was against the bobcats) where he had 5 assists and generated a whole bunch of "now he gets it" talk. after that, every time he had a single assist, boler got all over his junk and talked about how it was more evidence that jefferson was suddenly a playmaking big. nice story, but his april assist average was 2.3 per 36, compared to a season average of... wait for it... 2.3 per 36. even in that orlando game you're talking about, he had 2 assists total for that game, both of which were simply passes back out to the strong-side wing.

i also don't know that i agree that the jazz are building around al simply because they got three point shooters. first of all, paul can command a double-team too (and even favors will demand some attention assuming he comes back with another move or two in his repertoire). it's not like having shooters only benefits a team that plays a staggeringly slow-paced form of basketball that is predicated on the ball getting stuck on the low block for half the possession. i think they got guys to make the team better and more flexible. maybe that will help al, or maybe it will help derrick become the future star of the franchise. either way, i don't like jumping to the conclusion that this was all designed with al in mind, especially since al is the one guy they COULD have locked up long term this summer and they didn't.

 

[mellow]

Just saw that Al is ranked the #10 player for ESPN fantasy league. Don't they know he sucks?

FYI: Milsap is 11, Favors is 100 (good value pick there), Hayward is 73, Mo Williams is 83.

 

[Deleted member 848]

franklin for president



















Carry on.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Just saw that Al is ranked the #10 player for ESPN fantasy league. Don't they know he sucks?

FYI: Milsap is 11, Favors is 100 (good value pick there), Hayward is 73, Mo Williams is 83.

Considering all Al has done in his career is put up numbers, that would make sense.

 

[Ben10]

i also don't know that i agree that the jazz are building around al simply because they got three point shooters. first of all, paul can command a double-team too (and even favors will demand some attention assuming he comes back with another move or two in his repertoire). it's not like having shooters only benefits a team that plays a staggeringly slow-paced form of basketball that is predicated on the ball getting stuck on the low block for half the possession. i think they got guys to make the team better and more flexible. maybe that will help al, or maybe it will help derrick become the future star of the franchise. either way, i don't like jumping to the conclusion that this was all designed with al in mind, especially since al is the one guy they COULD have locked up long term this summer and they didn't.

The only part that I disagree with is that Millsap commands a double team. I remember multipule times last season at the end of game when they went to him that the other team would not double and Sap still had a hard time getting off a high percentage shot.

Again I agree with you that Al is not the corner stone of a championship team, and I guess thats all that matters. But I'm still not sure that the battle on who to keep (sap or Al) is as clear cut as your mind has made it. It makes perfect sense that the Jazz offered Sap the extention they did because of the #'s. There is no way they are signing Al back up for more than his current rate so offering him an extention off what he is making now makes no sense. I guess we well see after this year, or the trade deadline.

Just as long as Favors is getting around 36 min a night that is all I care about

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Hmm...that raises a good point.

Who'd you rather have, Jefferson at Jefferson's salary or Millsap at Jefferson's salary?

 

[theNBAnerd]

The only part that I disagree with is that Millsap commands a double team. I remember multipule times last season at the end of game when they went to him that the other team would not double and Sap still had a hard time getting off a high percentage shot.

Again I agree with you that Al is not the corner stone of a championship team, and I guess thats all that matters. But I'm still not sure that the battle on who to keep (sap or Al) is as clear cut as your mind has made it. It makes perfect sense that the Jazz offered Sap the extention they did because of the #'s. There is no way they are signing Al back up for more than his current rate so offering him an extention off what he is making now makes no sense. I guess we well see after this year, or the trade deadline.

Just as long as Favors is getting around 36 min a night that is all I care about

well the end result of our logic is the same... it needs to be all about how to help favors realize his potential. we gave up an all-NBA talent to get favors, so it's just not acceptable to keep finding excuses to not develop him into our future star.

and an al-favors frontcourt just doesn't work. millsap-favors is a dynamic, versatile, exciting, defensive tandem and gives favors the best chance at developing into a beast, as opposed to developing into a guy who stands still and watched the ball get stuck in the post.

 

[billyshelby]

paul can command a double-team too (and even favors will demand some attention assuming he comes back with another move or two in his repertoire).

No he can't. And neither can Favors. At least not based on anything we have have seen. The biggest fly in the ointment with all the myopic efficiency arguments is this: Sap's kryptonite is length. With Al on the floor, he never sees a 5. With Favors on the floor, he will regularly be defended by 5's because teams will happily challenge Favors to beat them with 4's.

If Sap faces a steady diet of 7 footers, he will not be nearly as effective, which will turn him into a much less efficient player than Al.

But to Sap's credit, he always improves, and maybe he's got a few more rabbits in the hat. I doubt it, though. He doesn't have Al's footwork or technique to beat bigger guys.

 

[billyshelby]

Fair. Still, for player movement/cuts to be effective, the player with the ball in his hands needs to be able to make quick decisions AND make passes with some precision. I don't think Al has shown an ability to do either of those things. With that said, in the video posted by franklin, Al was able to make the required pass from the high post in a couple high-low situations. If Al doesn't show an ability to make passes to those out of his immediate field of vision, using him from the high post more frequently might leverage the defense more and improve the offense.

Lets see Al have a chance to make any passes to cutters with regularity before we decide what he can and can't do. He's had 1) the disastrous Deron year where everything fell apart; and 2) last season when he barely had a cutter to not recognize.

All reports on Marvin are that he's a good cutter. Hayward should be improved in that department. We'll find out this year if Al can find cutters.

 

[billyshelby]

Hmm...that raises a good point.

Who'd you rather have, Jefferson at Jefferson's salary or Millsap at Jefferson's salary?

An excellent question with an easy answer.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Millsap at Millsap's salary, and no Jefferson salary.

 

[Brown Notes]

Millsap at Millsap's salary, and no Jefferson salary.

That will not happen. Sap is going to get poison pilled. Utah will have to devote real money to keep him. That's a difficult decision unless you don't care about Favors, Hayward, Burks and Kanter.