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I have seen the light....

Scorpjazz

Scorpjazz

Well-Known Member
I know it is only a few games in, BUT it is obvious to me that the time is NOW to dump both Al and Sap for whatever we can get for them. Move forward with the new guys, get them minutes and see what it brings us. We KNOW what we are going to get with Sap and Al. We are going to get what we have right now, a losing record. We can get a losing record with Kanter and Favors starting and I have no doubt within a few weeks, if that long, with starters minutes we will see huge steps in both of them. This is stupid for Ty to keep using the same formula that is proven to not work. On that note, while I wanted to give him time as a coach, Ty doesnt seem to show some of the basics of good coachng. Things that you should be able to do when you start. You dont have to learn over time that a lineup isnt working, or that one player is ALWAYS going to give you the same results. It should be obvious. He seems to have Sloan type attitudes with out Sloan type results even. No excuses, IMO, Ty needs to go...soon. Seems harsh, and Im usually a company man, but the guy shows me NOTHING at all that makes me believe he will ever get better...I do like the pickups of the Williams' and Foye, that is about it so far this year that makes me upbeat.
 
Scorp is spot on.
Jefferson, Millsap and Ty need to move on.

On the other hand, on the current path, it's likely the Jazz remain one of the 6th worst teams in the league, thereby helping to block GS from tanking to keep their pick.
 
Scorpjazz said:
I know it is only a few games in, BUT it is obvious to me that the time is NOW to dump both Al and Sap for whatever we can get for them. Move forward with the new guys, get them minutes and see what it brings us. We KNOW what we are going to get with Sap and Al. We are going to get what we have right now, a losing record. We can get a losing record with Kanter and Favors starting and I have no doubt within a few weeks, if that long, with starters minutes we will see huge steps in both of them. This is stupid for Ty to keep using the same formula that is proven to not work. On that note, while I wanted to give him time as a coach, Ty doesnt seem to show some of the basics of good coachng. Things that you should be able to do when you start. You dont have to learn over time that a lineup isnt working, or that one player is ALWAYS going to give you the same results. It should be obvious. He seems to have Sloan type attitudes with out Sloan type results even. No excuses, IMO, Ty needs to go...soon. Seems harsh, and Im usually a company man, but the guy shows me NOTHING at all that makes me believe he will ever get better...I do like the pickups of the Williams' and Foye, that is about it so far this year that makes me upbeat.
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You have been a fearless supporter of Jefferson. When the Jazz picked up Jefferson I wanted to believe that he was going to help this team but I also had the fear (That I shared with those around me because I wasn't on Jazzfanz at the time) that he might destroy this team. It is not Jefferson's fault that this team is struggling be he does have a role in all of this.

I am impressed that you have said this. I know that I have come after you several times because of your support of Jefferson. I will rep you from now now just because of this one post.
 
MoTown16 said:
Scorp is spot on.
Jefferson, Millsap and Ty need to move on.

On the other hand, on the current path, it's likely the Jazz remain one of the 6th worst teams in the league, thereby helping to block GS from tanking to keep their pick.
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I just looked and if the season ended today the Jazz would get the 7th and 16th pick in the draft. I would have expected that at the beginning of the season but I thought that the Warriors would be supplying the 7th pick, not the Jazz.
 
Atta boy..... its about time.
 
Time marches on and it is time to go young and see what happens. Worse case scenario the Jazz get a couple of stud young guys from the draft and build within their organization.

I liked AJ coming out of the draft. I wanted the Jazz to pick him with one of their picks. I wasn't that excited to pick him up in free agency. I thought we overpaid for him. I have been up and down on keeping him until last year. I think AJ has some value around the league and so does Millsap. I would rather keep Millsap if he is willing to become a six man and if he will re-sign for a decent contract.

If Millsap wants to much money or whines about coming off the bench then I would trade him. I think most Jazz fans see the writing on the wall even if AJ and Millsap turn it around. Eventually, both guys are going to either take a smaller role or get traded. They are complimentary players to a championship team and they are who they are.

I have been more than ready to see the Jazz hand over the team to Favors and Kanter even if they are not totally ready. Playing low minutes is not the way to get them ready.
 
cowhide said:
Time marches on and it is time to go young and see what happens. Worse case scenario the Jazz get a couple of stud young guys from the draft and build within their organization.

I liked AJ coming out of the draft. I wanted the Jazz to pick him with one of their picks. I wasn't that excited to pick him up in free agency. I thought we overpaid for him. I have been up and down on keeping him until last year. I think AJ has some value around the league and so does Millsap. I would rather keep Millsap if he is willing to become a six man and if he will re-sign for a decent contract.

If Millsap wants to much money or whines about coming off the bench then I would trade him. I think most Jazz fans see the writing on the wall even if AJ and Millsap turn it around. Eventually, both guys are going to either take a smaller role or get traded. They are complimentary players to a championship team and they are who they are.

I have been more than ready to see the Jazz hand over the team to Favors and Kanter even if they are not totally ready. Playing low minutes is not the way to get them ready.
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Locke said it on his pod cast the other day that Millsap hosed himself by not taking that extesion offer. The way he's playing so far this season he will be lucky to get a 5 million per/yr deal. He's been one of my favorite players for years and I have been on the trade Al and keep Sap bandwagon for a long time. However, Sap needs to see what we all see, a short 4 who makes a living with hustle. That's a bench players role and that's all he's got left in the tank from what I can see.
 
I agree that Al needs to go, but not Millsap. I think Al's lack of effort is what hurts us most right now. I think it has negative impact on everyone else. Id like to see that happen before I start blaming Ty for too much right. I think the onus is on the management to move Al too. Corbin is under pressure to play him and so it isnt as easy as every thinks to bench a guy that is making 15 mil a year. At least not a young coach trying to make it. Maybe a veteran guy but not a beginner. I believe that the management and coaching staff have discussions on what to do with players minutes. Ive heard them say as much. A lot more goes into the decision making process on who plays, than it just appears from the surface. Al is treated as a stock and an investment. They are going to see this thing through, just like they did with Boozer. Its the Jazz way. Slow and patient. They arent going to make knee jerk reaction moves. They dont believe that is the formula to success. So lets just get used to it.

Here's how this year will go..

Jazz make playoffs and lose in the first or second round.

Jazz are not dumb and they too will have noticed Al Jefferson is a bum just like Boozer and will let him walk.

Jazz re-sign Millsap because he is a good player just like they did the last time instead of re-signing Boozer.

Then we can finally move on and have a fun team to watch next year with a starting line up of Millsap and Favors. I wish I was wrong and we were to trade Al sooner, and we get some assets back but I doubt it happens.

Then our team will really be bad *** and then everyone will be saying how great Corbin is.
 
Shouldn't we wait until Jefferson/Millsap actually start playing well? They are both playing well below their usual levels, so interest in them can't be super high at this point.
 
just because said:
Locke said it on his pod cast the other day that Millsap hosed himself by not taking that extesion offer. The way he's playing so far this season he will be lucky to get a 5 million per/yr deal. He's been one of my favorite players for years and I have been on the trade Al and keep Sap bandwagon for a long time. However, Sap needs to see what we all see, a short 4 who makes a living with hustle. That's a bench players role and that's all he's got left in the tank from what I can see.
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I know it is early in the season but I'm worried that Millsap might be destroying any sort of trade value that he has. Locke has said it many times that something seems off about Millsap. I wonder if there is an injury that he is not telling anyone about. He knows that as long as Corbin doesn't have an injury reason to bench him that he will get his minutes no matter what and that is a problem.

I always wanted to keep Millsap around but now I am starting to wonder if that is a good idea or not.
 
Jefferson is a loser. Everywhere he goes losing follows. Time to pass the buck.

If we can get good value out of Millsap I'm for it, but I think he's infected with Jefferson's losing mentality right now and could be a great part of this team if the chemistry and mentality turns around.

I was hoping to see a few things from Ty this year and so far I've seen the opposite. No balls, no imagination, no inspiration. Maybe he can turn things around and become a mediocre HC, but really I feel like his ceiling is pretty low. Sorry Ty, I suspended disbelief as long as I could.
 
Scorpjazz said:
Usually that would be me, so Im excited to see who it is.
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Yeah I always thought I'd be the contrarian, but how can you be at this point?
Millsap seems to be on the downside of his career from what I can see, and Jefferson has seemed to have gotten worse and worse ever since joining the Jazz.
At the same time, I don't see this as all Al and Paul's fault. Ty Corbin just does not have the correct offenses for this team.
I think Al and Paul could both flourish sharing the big man time with Favors and Kanter.
No hard cuts, no back door screens, no pick and rolls, no taking charges, inefficient rebounding, and way too much help defense leaving other players open for easy shots.
Screw you Ty!
 
Hack said:
I agree that Al needs to go, but not Millsap. I think Al's lack of effort is what hurts us most right now. I think it has negative impact on everyone else. Id like to see that happen before I start blaming Ty for too much right. I think the onus is on the management to move Al too. Corbin is under pressure to play him and so it isnt as easy as every thinks to bench a guy that is making 15 mil a year. At least not a young coach trying to make it. Maybe a veteran guy but not a beginner. I believe that the management and coaching staff have discussions on what to do with players minutes. Ive heard them say as much. A lot more goes into the decision making process on who plays, than it just appears from the surface. Al is treated as a stock and an investment. They are going to see this thing through, just like they did with Boozer. Its the Jazz way. Slow and patient. They arent going to make knee jerk reaction moves. They dont believe that is the formula to success. So lets just get used to it.

Here's how this year will go..

Jazz make playoffs and lose in the first or second round.

Jazz are not dumb and they too will have noticed Al Jefferson is a bum just like Boozer and will let him walk.

Jazz re-sign Millsap because he is a good player just like they did the last time instead of re-signing Boozer.

Then we can finally move on and have a fun team to watch next year with a starting line up of Millsap and Favors. I wish I was wrong and we were to trade Al sooner, and we get some assets back but I doubt it happens.

Then our team will really be bad *** and then everyone will be saying how great Corbin is.
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Normally I would agree with this but Millsap has been taking and missing some really selfish shots. Shots were his is off balance, defended heavily, early in the shot clock etc. Again, it is very early in the season but I have been extremely disappointed in Millsap. His calling card is rebounding and hustling but he doesn't seem to be doing either as well as he used to.
 
orangello said:
Normally I would agree with this but Millsap has been taking and missing some really selfish shots. Shots were his is off balance, defended heavily, early in the shot clock etc. Again, it is very early in the season but I have been extremely disappointed in Millsap. His calling card is rebounding and hustling but he doesn't seem to be doing either as well as he used to.
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Someone convinced him over the off season that he was a jump shooter. We need to find out who that person is and hurt them...bad.
 
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