The official Jazz @ Indiana game thread 5:00 ON Root Sports 1280 AM/ 97.5 FM
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billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I have no idea if this what Indiana always does, but Vogel's coaching was brilliant. Indiana sends back their 1-3 on every shot. They basically conceded the offensive rebound to completely take away our break. He wanted to defend our half court offense. We'll see this playbook again.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Our halfcourt offense is abysmal. No cutting, no plan when the initial baseline screens or high pick and roll don't work, and no idea what to do in the back half of the clock. The lesson we're learning is we can look good against teams that can't defend the break or crap defenses like LA or Toronto or Brooklyn. The SA win was an outlier. Until we figure out what our half court offense is, more teams are going to do what Indiana did to us tonight.
Burks had triple the points in the paint the entire Jazz team had in the first half.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
What I don't understand is why we keep initiating the offense with things that don't work. When Mo runs high/low, the down screens rarely produce a shot (although they did for the first 4 minutes of the 1st until Indiana clamped down.) On the second unit, we need to stop giving the ball to Hayward. The scouting report is out -- defenders pressure him, he can't drive, and he turns the ball over like 50% of the time. And when we go post with anyone, it's an Iso with no cutters or movement on the perimeter (and everybody on the other half of the floor)
What is Ty telling this team in the film sessions? Do we have film sessions?
What is Ty telling this team in the film sessions? Do we have film sessions?
orangello
Well-Known Member
Bench him now!
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
We need a driver. It kills me that we don't have even ONE 1/2/3 who can drive. It's like we drastically overcompensated for the shooting problem and forgot driving is actually important.
You got me. What I didn't get is that they didn't even try to get the ball in the paint in the first half. Hey if they get stuffed fine I guess, but watching them brick jumper after jumper was just depressing to watch.
Litany
Well-Known Member
Lmao
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
4 points:
#1 Vogel. who the hell is this guy? Proved tonight, as Tibbs (from Chicago) has also proven... The value of actually having a coach is so great. Just because Ty Corbin can clap real loud and look nice in a suit and played in this league doesn't mean he knows a damn thing about coaching. Look at Vinny Del Negro. His team wins in spite of his crappy coaching. Avery Johnson? He has probably the second most talented team in the East and they're barely .500. We have a ton of talent on this roster. We're loaded with lotto picks. Yet..... This team... The way the offense is executed, the defense played, and the effort displayed, looks like a lotto team. That 03-04 Jazz team with Carlos friggin Arroyo ran the offense 100x better than we do. In fact, the Jazz offense looks literally as bad as the teams who we constantly make fun of (Kings, Wizards, Raptors). 1 on 1 and tons of jumpers. You could have Stockton in his prime right now and this offense would be horrid with the way players (other than Burks) aren't attacking, roles not being fulfilled, and structure just completely lost.
Truly, Corbin doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Remember how on 1320 they were making fun of Corbin talking about how he doesn't "define roles" and that "everyone is a basketball player."
That's lotto basketball guys. Lotto basketball. Tony Parker isn't Manu, Duncan isn't splitter, and Matt Boner isn't David Robinson. Likewise, the last thing this team needs right is to NOT have specifically defined roles and responsibilities. Hence.... Why everyone thinks their job is to shoot jumpers/3s and no one actually runs the offense or fulfills their roles.
They're just... "Playing Basketball."
Championship bball, isn't that. It's having clearly defined roles and responsibilities AND HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE. If they fail, BENCH THEIR ASSES. If Big Al's job is to post up and get to the FT line, then by hell he better do it or else his *** is toast. More frustrating than anything, is that if the starting 5 either cannot or refuses to accomplish team goals, WE HAVE A BENCH!!! A team like the Lakers? Doesn't have the luxury we have. We're deep and talented. If Big Al wants to take the night off, LET HIM. Sit his *** down. Bench him for the next game. We won't lose anything by benching him. If he doesn't like it, who gives a damn? Trade his *** to the Wizards or Bobcats for a bag of chips.
Championship bball is having a guy who can distribute the ball, having a few bombers, having a post up guy or 2, and a few garbage dogs. There's no reason why guys like Burks, Favors, and Carroll are having the "most success." Because they know their responsibilities and roles. Carroll isn't going to chuck 3s, Burks is going to drive hard, and Favors is going to block the hell out of shots.
Until Ty Corbin actually starts coaching, this team isn't going to progress. It's obvious. So cut the cheerleading crap and HIRE ON A DAMN COACH.
#2 Can the Al Jefferson/Paul Millsap experiment end already? Kanter and Favors are ready. It's utterly appalling that we're still giving them 30+ mins per game and the two #3 draft picks are riding the pine getting maybe 10-15 mins per game. Is there another coach in this league that would be doing this?
#3 Is there another ****ing coach in this entire ****ing league who would banish Burks in favor of Foye and 2 backup PGs who wouldn't even be in this league right now? I literally have no clue what the hell Burks has to do to play. Is there another coach in the league who would have treated this situation so badly? I know Sloan got a bad rap for not playing young players. But even Sloan... Think he would have banished Burks like Corbin has done?
#4 It's pretty obvious that this team isn't progressing. It just... Isn't.... Yes, every now and again we'll luck out against a team like the Nets. But ultimately, we aren't becoming more physical, more dynamic, more defensive, or progressing. That progression? Isn't happening because we're still a franchise unsure of what we're trying to accomplish. Or perhaps, it's too obvious what we're trying to accomplish....
Tickets are still being sold right? The franchise is still profitable, right? So why rock the boat?
#1 Vogel. who the hell is this guy? Proved tonight, as Tibbs (from Chicago) has also proven... The value of actually having a coach is so great. Just because Ty Corbin can clap real loud and look nice in a suit and played in this league doesn't mean he knows a damn thing about coaching. Look at Vinny Del Negro. His team wins in spite of his crappy coaching. Avery Johnson? He has probably the second most talented team in the East and they're barely .500. We have a ton of talent on this roster. We're loaded with lotto picks. Yet..... This team... The way the offense is executed, the defense played, and the effort displayed, looks like a lotto team. That 03-04 Jazz team with Carlos friggin Arroyo ran the offense 100x better than we do. In fact, the Jazz offense looks literally as bad as the teams who we constantly make fun of (Kings, Wizards, Raptors). 1 on 1 and tons of jumpers. You could have Stockton in his prime right now and this offense would be horrid with the way players (other than Burks) aren't attacking, roles not being fulfilled, and structure just completely lost.
Truly, Corbin doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Remember how on 1320 they were making fun of Corbin talking about how he doesn't "define roles" and that "everyone is a basketball player."
That's lotto basketball guys. Lotto basketball. Tony Parker isn't Manu, Duncan isn't splitter, and Matt Boner isn't David Robinson. Likewise, the last thing this team needs right is to NOT have specifically defined roles and responsibilities. Hence.... Why everyone thinks their job is to shoot jumpers/3s and no one actually runs the offense or fulfills their roles.
They're just... "Playing Basketball."
Championship bball, isn't that. It's having clearly defined roles and responsibilities AND HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE. If they fail, BENCH THEIR ASSES. If Big Al's job is to post up and get to the FT line, then by hell he better do it or else his *** is toast. More frustrating than anything, is that if the starting 5 either cannot or refuses to accomplish team goals, WE HAVE A BENCH!!! A team like the Lakers? Doesn't have the luxury we have. We're deep and talented. If Big Al wants to take the night off, LET HIM. Sit his *** down. Bench him for the next game. We won't lose anything by benching him. If he doesn't like it, who gives a damn? Trade his *** to the Wizards or Bobcats for a bag of chips.
Championship bball is having a guy who can distribute the ball, having a few bombers, having a post up guy or 2, and a few garbage dogs. There's no reason why guys like Burks, Favors, and Carroll are having the "most success." Because they know their responsibilities and roles. Carroll isn't going to chuck 3s, Burks is going to drive hard, and Favors is going to block the hell out of shots.
Until Ty Corbin actually starts coaching, this team isn't going to progress. It's obvious. So cut the cheerleading crap and HIRE ON A DAMN COACH.
#2 Can the Al Jefferson/Paul Millsap experiment end already? Kanter and Favors are ready. It's utterly appalling that we're still giving them 30+ mins per game and the two #3 draft picks are riding the pine getting maybe 10-15 mins per game. Is there another coach in this league that would be doing this?
#3 Is there another ****ing coach in this entire ****ing league who would banish Burks in favor of Foye and 2 backup PGs who wouldn't even be in this league right now? I literally have no clue what the hell Burks has to do to play. Is there another coach in the league who would have treated this situation so badly? I know Sloan got a bad rap for not playing young players. But even Sloan... Think he would have banished Burks like Corbin has done?
#4 It's pretty obvious that this team isn't progressing. It just... Isn't.... Yes, every now and again we'll luck out against a team like the Nets. But ultimately, we aren't becoming more physical, more dynamic, more defensive, or progressing. That progression? Isn't happening because we're still a franchise unsure of what we're trying to accomplish. Or perhaps, it's too obvious what we're trying to accomplish....
Tickets are still being sold right? The franchise is still profitable, right? So why rock the boat?
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
It's pretty obvious that Ty isn't coaching folks. He's not a good coach.
Why do you think that many teams with tons of talent look like dump while the Spurs backups nearly beat the defending champs?
C-O-A-C-H-I-N-G.
How the hell did that 03-04 Jazz team with Arroyo, Michael Ruffin, and AK47 almost make the playoffs?
Jerry Farvin Sloan
If Ty Corbin coaches that team they don't win more than 10 games.
If Pops or Phil Jackson had this current Jazz team team, we'd be a top 3 seed right now.
Hell, if we just had Vogel, Doc Rivers, or Tibbs we'd be a top 3 seed right now.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Burks doesn't play because a guy shooting 41% from 3 is ahead of him. Banish Hayward to the bench, instead? Foye as a point guard is a disaster. He's a much, much, MUCH worse point guard than Mo. Burks took 10 shots in 14 minutes. He's not a point guard. Play Hayward at 3 and bench Carrol? Dude plays good defense and earned his minutes.
Jazz wanted to see what a full year of a Jeffersap core would bring going into cap room off season. It's a year of patience to see if the team can go on a streak. I'm pretty sure if this trend continues, at least one won't be back.
Jazz wanted to see what a full year of a Jeffersap core would bring going into cap room off season. It's a year of patience to see if the team can go on a streak. I'm pretty sure if this trend continues, at least one won't be back.
When Big Al doesn't raise his hands, and watches someone blow by him.... does Ty quickly fast forward to where Kanter makes a mistake.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
As Matt Harpring said. Do we even have a ****ing offense? I have said since 2 weeks into the season that we don't have an offense. If we can't run, or secondary break, we are screwed. We don't run any sets, we don't have an answer for teams that can pressure the ball and guard AL man to man. We don't even attempt to run a passing game and seem to be unable to run a PNR effectively. We pretty much rely on all of our half court scoring to come from a single post up player and passing it when he's doubled. If he doesn't get doubled because the other team has a guy that can defend him, we have no answer or options except throw up a bad 3 pt attempt.
Crawlnstall
Well-Known Member
Three players scored in double figures?!? That's it? And only one of them is on offense? C'mon this awful. I'm sick and tired of the Jazz playing like garbage. We can't win with Jefferson and Millsap so why play them both so much? Play Kanter and Favors along with Burks and we'll still lose games but we'll be better in the long run...this coaching is driving me up the wall
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
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Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
That's pretty brilliant I didn't notice they were doing it. Makes sense given the Jazz rely so heavily on the break. It's a great example of what a good coach can do for you.