Okur Update

[NUMBERICA]

Rich man's Matt Bonner.

Defense wins championships, and Cs are supposed to be the captain of the defense.

So one of the resident geniuses tell me how the Jazz are supposed to be a real contender with AN EVEN SLOWER defensive liability getting significant minutes, and one who's only bankable skill is shooting the 3?

Pop quiz; when was the last time a championship team had a starting C who couldn't defend (anybody except the slowest guy in the entire league) but could shoot the ball?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

It sounds to me like a few of you are stuck in the 50's with Marty, waiting for the lightning to hit the towers and bring you back to 1985.

Just because you dont like Okur, does not mean he doesn't add value to the team. His effectiveness in the playoffs as to the boxscore was limited by the fact that he was actually playing pretty good defense. Was he blocking shots everywhere, and getting tons of steals... no. He was defending the center position pretty well, and forcing the opposing center to come out on him on the offensive side of the ball, which opened things up more for layups and easier shots on offense. Why it looked so bad was if anyone had to play help defense, someone had to get their guy, and the team sucked on the second help..... the help the helper as you will. Boozer sucked at helping, which made other people look bad. If Okur went to help someone, would Boozer help out on his guy? No. Then his guy scores and if you look at a boxscore it looks like the guy he's guarding did better than he really did.

If you want to say you dont like Okur because he has been hurt and hasn't played a meaningful playoff game in 2 seasons, fine. If you like the defense and team dynamic with him off the court, and Fess in the middle, fine. Does that mean Okur sucks... no. Mark Eaton was a great defender, and a giant in the middle....did we win a championship with him in the middle? Would Stockton and Malone have won one with Okur replacing Eaton in the middle?

Food for thought.

How many other teams out there would want Okur on their team right now even with the injury? I think quite a few would.

He will not be much slower than he was after he comes back, and in reality did he really jump all that much before? He is 6'11'' and would get an additional few inches on a jump here and there, but did he ever really jump before?

I think some of you are just complaining about someone because its easy.

Oh, by the way, the best series we played against the Lakers was 3 years ago when he actually played in the playoffs. Went to 6 games. The next year he was injured and it went to 5 games, and last year we were swept without him.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Pop quiz; when was the last time a championship team had a starting C who couldn't defend (anybody except the slowest guy in the entire league) but could shoot the ball?

How about the Bulls in 96, 97, and 98 with Luc Longley.
5-6 RPG, .5 Stpg, 1bpg

Dont even try to say he was faster, jumped higher, or was a better defender. If he was a better defender it wasn't by much.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Mark Eaton was a great defender, and a giant in the middle....did we win a championship with him in the middle? Would Stockton and Malone have won one with Okur replacing Eaton in the middle?

The Jazz took the Bulls to 6 games in consecutive years; in one of those years had a top-10 all-time point-differential (the other 9 won championships) and in one of those years they had the best record in the league while sweeping the twin towers Spurs and the Kobe/Shaq Lakers. They did all of that having a C rotation of Greg Ostertag, Greg Foster, and 6' 9" Antoine Carr. If that Jazz team has a Mark Eaton playing his averages, the Jazz win two titles and you'd have to be retarded to honestly think otherwise. With Memo? Who freaking knows, but the Pistons didn't get to hoist their trophy by the grace of Memo as he was playing only bit minutes that series. That's really all he should've been doing his whole career on a contender. But he hasn't been playing for one since that time, and that's not a coincidence.

 

[NUMBERICA]

How about the Bulls in 96, 97, and 98 with Luc Longley.
5-6 RPG, .5 Stpg, 1bpg

Dont even try to say he was faster, jumped higher, or was a better defender. If he was a better defender it wasn't by much.

Wow, box-score depth. The only problem is box score defense is incredibly flawed (otherwise Chris Paul is one of the best defenders in the league, as was Iverson, as was/is Camby). And the only OTHER problem is that on those Bulls teams they had three All-NBA defensive first team members (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman).

So,
1. Your stats don't prove a damn thing.
2. The Bulls team defense was suffocating.
3. They had Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, and Phil Jackson.

Those two bottom reasons alone automatically makes one a contender. A combination never before or since seen. The Jazz don't have those luxuries, even though Longley was twice the defender Okur was. At least. And that isn't saying much.

 

[One Brow]

So one of the resident geniuses tell me how the Jazz are supposed to be a real contender with AN EVEN SLOWER defensive liability getting significant minutes, and one who's only bankable skill is shooting the 3?

Okur is not as shot blocker, but he man defense is good enough that he didn't need double-teams to guard Yao. He ha had, and will contginue to have, bankable skill in post defense, and his lack of speed will not be a great differential there.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Okur is not as shot blocker, but he man defense is good enough that he didn't need double-teams to guard Yao. He ha had, and will contginue to have, bankable skill in post defense, and his lack of speed will not be a great differential there.

Then Jefferson better get damn good at help D and/or Okur be limited to <20 mpg. Not a good investment in the latter scenario, certainly (even barring injury).

 

[One Brow]

Then Jefferson better get damn good at help D and/or Okur be limited to <20 mpg. Not a good investment in the latter scenario, certainly (even barring injury).

I agree. If we want to win a championship, Jefferson needs to reach his potential as a help defender. Okur won't cut it for mobility reasons, Millsap for height reasons, Fesenko for mental reasons (probably).

 

[Stifle Tower]

I'm not sure where all the hatred for Okur comes from. How many complete centers are there in the NBA?
I agree Okur is weak on defense. And he's one of those hybrid 4/5's vs. a true 5. But his defensive weaknesses were exacerbated by having Boozer play next to him and neither were real low-post threats on offense. I think we're going to see a much more balanced offense with Big Al playing alongside Millsap or Okur. Jefferson can play down low, and if he gets doubled, he'll be able to kick it out to Millsap or Okur, who both have great mid-range games (with Okur all the way out to the 3).

It was only 2 years ago when Okur had that fantastic stretch of hitting 60% of his 3's when Boozer was out. Avgs of about 16/8 with the Jazz on 46%/38%. Those are great numbers. Just take a look at what centers are paid. $11M is at worst a fair price for a 16/8 center (excluding the guys still on their rookie contracts, of course).

 

[jazzrule]

Okur is an average one on one defender, and he is a totally nothing as a help defender. He does not block shots or even alter shots. His transition defense sucks big time. Remember what our newest point guard said about the scouting report for beating the Jazz. Okur is a great 3 point shooting big man, but this in no way over comess the rest of the package. Anyone that has coached before knows how important the fast break can be and how important transition defense is. I for one am in no hurry to have him back, and if and when he does he should only get minutes on the second team or because of injuries to our other bigs. SPEED KILLS!

 

[Jean-Luc]

lol at the memo apologists

 

[NUMBERICA]

If Memo has a 16/8 season for the rest of his career, I will literally eat a piece of ****. It's not happening. And that still doesn't make him worth a damn on D. And if there's ANY player on the Jazz guilty of playing for his next contract, it's Memo. He generally came into camp out of shape every year except for '08, and that happened to coincide with a career-best year.

And I don't especially care if he's good offensively. A player like Joel Przybilla or Brendan Haywood is fine with me. It's as difficult or more difficult to find a C that hits 3s than it does to find one that plays D, and the Jazz passed on one in the draft. After 6 years and a chance to draft a player that appears to be everything that's been missing on this team since I don't even know (Eaton?), the Jazz have run out of excuses.

Back to the point, I hope I never see Memo play more than 20 mpg for the rest of his time as a Jazz-man. He was a liability on D when he came here, and there's no way he's better after what is commonly a practical career-ending injury. If he plays, I want him to be in the best shape possible and I'm in no rush to see his slap-the-off-arm-of-the-perimeter-player-to-"prevent"-the-basket-but-end-up-giving-the-basket-and-the-foul "defense".