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Tanking Ideas

Game6Conley

Game6Conley

Well-Known Member
if the jazz can start out really bad (in 96-97 the spurs started 3-15, then fired Coach Bob Hill, whom was relieved by Greg Poppovic who finished up the season 17-47)

this is key, than we could start exaggerating key injuries, (sitting hayward, a la sean elliott for knee tendinitis)

now most die hard spurs fans will really defend that the Spurs didnt tank and say David Robinsons injuries were all legit... but mostly their defense is deflecting that the celtics were clearly the ones tanking. some feel as the Celtics offering the #3 and #6 pick + Dino Radja and offering to take on some deadweight, for the #1 pick as the celtics clearly conceeding that they were tanking for Duncan.

Spurs finished with 20 wins, Celtics had 15 and the Grizzlies had 14... so many die hards say they won the luck of the draw it wasent tanking

to me i think this is an outstanding blueprint for the jazz to use, they picked up Dominique Wilkins and Vernon Maxwell in the twilight of their careers and played them way more minutes than any other NBA team would have (mainly Maxwell, Nique was still able to score) Vernon Maxwell played almost 30 minutes per game that season while shooting 37%....

heres the list of the least likely teams to win the championship this year (the competition)

the suns, 76ers, and Magic are 300:1, bobcats are 250:1, the bucks, kings and Jazz are next at 150:1

so vegas likes our chances to land in the lottery, for sure. personally i think the bucks with Jennings on a QO, and the Kings with new ownership and possible RoY Ben McLemore might be able to suprise some teams

Trading up in the 2014 draft should be really tough for many teams but i think the jazz have enough assets where if we landed a top 5-7 pick we could add in tons of value to move up and go after a specific player

in 07-08 the bulls won 40% of their games(9th worst record), and then won the #1 pick... so considering that, we're very live in the Wiggins sweepstakes, especially if Hayward goes down with an injury...
 
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also i forgot to mention at the time of the coaching change from Bob Hill to Pop, that was also around the time David Robinson was supposed to come back from his back injury, Pop took over and Robinson broke his foot... many spurs fans now that this is 16 years and 4 championships removed, give Pop credit for the masterful tank job.

they say before bob hill could turn the team around with Robinson, Pop took over and threw in the towel, Robinson then missed the rest of the season with a broken foot, the sean elliot benching was the most damning evidence in my opinion.

on par with the Warriors sitting D. Lee, and starting 5 rookies.
 
im really hoping the nba does us a favor and gives the jazz a really tough schedule early on, the trick i think to a proper tank job is starting out really ****ty out of the gate, to bottom expectations right off the bat.

with the jazz the homecourt advantage is very real, especially considering the age of the roster, it should be more amplified this year than usual

so i worry about us shooting teams out of ESA

if we have tons of home games vs playoff squads early, that i think is the best recipie for a bad start... then maybe we have tons of away games at the end of the year... ive got my fingers crossed
 
I'm curious to see how far the FO is willing to take this tank. If we have the 5th worst record by the All-Star break, would they start exaggerating player injuries in order to get a bottom 3 record?
 
Batman said:
If we landed Wiggins, ESPN would be so pissed. ha
Click to expand...

The only "big market" that has a chance on getting a >5% chance is Boston. So ESPN is going to be pissed anyways. But I like that. It adds more excitement and variety to the league.
 
Start the core five. Then run a bench of Lucas, Rush, Jefferson, Evans and Biedrins. That right there is probably the plan to start out. Heck, I'd love to see Lucas, Jefferson and Biedrins get some serious reserve minutes. I think that will be a huge key towards losing games without hurting the development of the young core. Getting serious minutes for young, untested guys like Burke, Burks, Gobert and Evans won't help them win games. Those guys are ALL going to struggle this year. I'm expecting big things out of Favors, Kanter and Hayward. . . but I don't think it will be enough to overcome the youth movement and a terrible bench.

A good coach could tank games with match ups and lineups without sacrificing the development of the young core. I'm worried that they'll have to fire Ty Corbin to get that type of quality tanking.
 
BTP said:
I gotta admit a thing...It's actually not the first time I see this video linked...Believe it or not!
Click to expand...

haha i just wanted to put it there for a "keep your eyes on the prize" typa deal

plus if you miss the #1 pick this year, the choices will be much better than Keith Van Horn, Chauncey Billups, Antonio Daniels, Ron Mercer, Tony Battie, Tim Thomas, and Adonal Foyle...

which is really why i think its actually prudent for the jazz to tank...

many tankjobs classically have been balls to the wall going for the #1 spot... that 97 draft had 3 all-stars, (one of which T-Mac wouldent have been eligible for the draft under current rules)... 2014 will certainly have tons of allstars..

point being many tanks are made or missed at the lottery, this years tankers will be made or missed on draft night... i like our chances
 
I have no doubt the Jazz will start off slow: They have a rookie PG. Outside of Hayward, none of the main players have started more than a few NBA games. Jazz will be implementing new offensive and defensive systems. The only thing I'm concerned with this year is seeing the quintet of Favors, Kanter, Burks, Burke and Hayward all get close to 30 mins or more. If the Jazz made the playoffs? Wow! That would mean those guys WAY exceeded expectations and are the pieces the Jazz build around. More likely is that even IF a few of those players are outstanding from the very start, the Jazz still miss the playoffs due to the weak bench. And any pick on the top-10 will net the Jazz a very nice, possibly all-star potential player. I'm not counting on the Jazz getting a player like Wiggins, Randle, Parker or Smart. I'll do cartwheels if the Jazz do, but I'll still be very, very happy if the Jazz get a player in the next tier down.

The Jazz MAYBE have 5 core players already, with a very promising project in Gobert. Add a 6th in the draft...maybe even a 7th with the GS pick. Wow! Then DL has the trade deadline and/or summer to pick up additional assets with the expiring contracts/cap space Utah will have. And if one of the 5 doesn't look like a "keeper?" Lindsey can address that in the draft or bring in a replacement by using those expirings and future picks he's amassed.
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
if the jazz can start out really bad (in 96-97 the spurs started 3-15, then fired Coach Bob Hill, whom was relieved by Greg Poppovic who finished up the season 17-47)

this is key, than we could start exaggerating key injuries, (sitting hayward, a la sean elliott for knee tendinitis)

now most die hard spurs fans will really defend that the Spurs didnt tank and say David Robinsons injuries were all legit... but mostly their defense is deflecting that the celtics were clearly the ones tanking. some feel as the Celtics offering the #3 and #6 pick + Dino Radja and offering to take on some deadweight, for the #1 pick as the celtics clearly conceeding that they were tanking for Duncan.

Spurs finished with 20 wins, Celtics had 15 and the Grizzlies had 14... so many die hards say they won the luck of the draw it wasent tanking

to me i think this is an outstanding blueprint for the jazz to use, they picked up Dominique Wilkins and Vernon Maxwell in the twilight of their careers and played them way more minutes than any other NBA team would have (mainly Maxwell, Nique was still able to score) Vernon Maxwell played almost 30 minutes per game that season while shooting 37%....

heres the list of the least likely teams to win the championship this year (the competition)

the suns, 76ers, and Magic are 300:1, bobcats are 250:1, the bucks, kings and Jazz are next at 150:1

so vegas likes our chances to land in the lottery, for sure. personally i think the bucks with Jennings on a QO, and the Kings with new ownership and possible RoY Ben McLemore might be able to suprise some teams

Trading up in the 2014 draft should be really tough for many teams but i think the jazz have enough assets where if we landed a top 5-7 pick we could add in tons of value to move up and go after a specific player

in 07-08 the bulls won 40% of their games(9th worst record), and then won the #1 pick... so considering that, we're very live in the Wiggins sweepstakes, especially if Hayward goes down with an injury...
Click to expand...

For the life of me I can't figure out what this rambling collection of thoughts has to do with your title. Striking lottery lightening is possible even with a 14 pick? No way.
 
point is theres ample evidence of this season being worthy of tanking for lots of teams, so how can we tank the best, while saving face to the ticketbuyers ? small market teams will pull out lots of tricks to compile losses, was suggusting that the spurs blueprint in 96, is the one we should use.

mainly the term "knee tendinitis"

im pretty sure about 95% of the nba has knee tendinitis, so knowing the spurs used that to keep sean elliot on the sidelines, i was hoping the jazz might pull the same stunt, for maximum tankage

im also pretty sure theres a rumor that the spurs tanked in 89 to get sean elliot with the 3rd pick, i was hoping maybe others would point out some blatant tanking tactics throughout the years, so we could compile a bunch of indicators
 
in the tank race the jazz are already being out maneuvered,

Philly trading Jrue Holliday for a lottery pick that wont be ready for the season, then they can "ease" him back to health at a slow pace, PR'd as they didnt want to pay Jrue asking price..

celtics have made the most blantant move, and have pre-emptively PR'd it placing blame on Rondo and Doc Rivers...

Suns selecting Len with Gortat on the roster and holes everywhere, to me seems kinda suspect...
 
BTP said:
I gotta admit a thing...It's actually not the first time I see this video linked...Believe it or not!
Click to expand...

So, the guy's got some great iso moves, and that's cool. And his athleticism is outstanding.

But when I watch this, all I see is a series of dunks. In the NBA when people are much more physical, is he going to be able to get away with this? Does he have a reliable midrange J? How about a deep two/3pt?
 
Exaggerate injuries? Play vets undue minutes and sacrifice the young talent?

Not no but hell no. Shameful.
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
point is theres ample evidence of this season being worthy of tanking for lots of teams, so how can we tank the best, while saving face to the ticketbuyers ? small market teams will pull out lots of tricks to compile losses, was suggusting that the spurs blueprint in 96, is the one we should use.

mainly the term "knee tendinitis"

im pretty sure about 95% of the nba has knee tendinitis, so knowing the spurs used that to keep sean elliot on the sidelines, i was hoping the jazz might pull the same stunt, for maximum tankage

im also pretty sure theres a rumor that the spurs tanked in 89 to get sean elliot with the 3rd pick, i was hoping maybe others would point out some blatant tanking tactics throughout the years, so we could compile a bunch of indicators
Click to expand...

You don't have issues with widely advertising unnecessary days off to 25 y.o. multi-millionaires who have not proven themselves yet?

I don't buy into the winning vs. losing culture as much as others. I think winners have it inside themselves, and nonchalant players can't be molded into a driven mentality, but letting anyone get comfortable with a high paying role is a risky way to adjust the winner's mentality toward complacency. Look at how happy Jefferson was to sign a $41mm contract with a losing club with no real outlook. "Just Enough" Jefferson.
 
I don't think the Jazz have to tank. They are going to lose because they have a horrible bench and inexperienced players. I want them to play hard and let the chips fall where they will.

However, realistically there is no way that the young guys aren't going to play hard. First, they want to prove themselves, secondly they have been waiting a couple years now for the opportunity to be the "guys" and lastly, why would you want them to tank it because only bad players will not give a full effort. The Core5 have everything to play for and most of these guys come from winning programs and have been in an organization who has always tried to win.

Until I see "fake" injuries and guys being held out of games, I refuse to think this new roster is a full out tank job. Instead, I think the organization has finally gotten it right and are in full rebuild mode which they should have done a couple of years ago. There is nothing wrong or unethical about playing your future young players. I know people are going to accuse the Jazz of out and out tanking but I disagree with that argument until I see the manipulation of players time or a player held out who is obviously healthy to play. I would be embarrassed if the Jazz went to that length to "maybe" get a shot at a high pick.

I think the Core5 will start out slow and then start playing better around December and January until they hit a tough road spot and struggle down the stretch playing against teams fighting for the playoffs. I would be shocked if the team didn't win between 25-32 games. If the Core5 play better than expected I could see the team win 35-39 games.
 
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