Evaluating the Core 5 -- What influence does Corbin Have?

[♪alt13]

If you think that the only thing separating The Four or Five from superstardom is a coach with a winning record with TEH WORST VETS IN TEH UNIVRESE, then I have a tonic to sell you.

Jazz

With a good vet from FA, a few nice draft pieces, and a new coach will compete for the playoffs next season.

Bucks

Won't

We have a good team that is missing the most important pieces. Sacramento has decided on their pieces and has a ****ty team. We are in a good place.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Jazz

With a good vet from FA, a few nice draft pieces, and a new coach will compete for the playoffs next season.

Bucks

Won't

We have a good team that is missing the most important pieces. Sacramento has decided on their pieces and has a ****ty team. We are in a good place.

I agree. But you have to get right at the right time, and getting jumpy to improve your team at the wrong time can have it's own consequences.

But I'm going to throw a name in the hat for out-of-house interim coach that might just bite: Mike Dunlap.

 

[Ellipse]

Do the players ever share any accountability?

I think and all know that Corbin sucks.

But what about the players?

Kanter looks slower and dumber than ever. Is it Corbin's fault that he offense fouls every time he sets a pick? Is it his fault he either doesn't jump inside or pass the ball out of triple teams? Is it Corbin's fault that kanter looks as interested at playing defense as boozer or big al?

Favors has struggled at times to finish inside. For a stretch of games there he looked completely MIA. Blame Corbin?

Burks is an idiot. Sometimes, he makes good plays. Most of the time, he's playing selfish ball forcing things 1 on 5. He has yet to play defense. He can't shoot from the outside yet doesn't have PG skills. He's a "tweener" for SGs.

Hayward? Is mentally weak and has struggled with his shot. He tries to take over in the 4th but cannot.

Burke? Since we are attributing everyone's failures on Corbin likewise can we attribute Burke's successes to Corbin? Or, in our hatred of Corbin, Are all of Burke's successes because of himself? What a sweet game! When players play well, it's because they are good. When they play bad, it's all on the coach.

The truth is, our c5 isn't that talented. Nor do they fit together other than Burke and Favors.

I'm going to jump on the statement in bold: Have you watched what happens when Kanter is fed the ball in the low block? The pg passing him the ball moves to the top of the arc, while the other three Jazz players are all stacked at the 3-pt line on the weak side. Several times Kanter has tried to pass out of the double and triple team, only there is no one to pass to; he has to wait for the pg to come back to him so he can make the pass without it being intercepted. I'm sure it wasn't Kanter that designed that play.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Do the players ever share any accountability?

I think and all know that Corbin sucks.

But what about the players?

Kanter looks slower and dumber than ever. Is it Corbin's fault that he offense fouls every time he sets a pick? Is it his fault he either doesn't jump inside or pass the ball out of triple teams? Is it Corbin's fault that kanter looks as interested at playing defense as boozer or big al?

Favors has struggled at times to finish inside. For a stretch of games there he looked completely MIA. Blame Corbin?

Burks is an idiot. Sometimes, he makes good plays. Most of the time, he's playing selfish ball forcing things 1 on 5. He has yet to play defense. He can't shoot from the outside yet doesn't have PG skills. He's a "tweener" for SGs.

Hayward? Is mentally weak and has struggled with his shot. He tries to take over in the 4th but cannot.

Burke? Since we are attributing everyone's failures on Corbin likewise can we attribute Burke's successes to Corbin? Or, in our hatred of Corbin, Are all of Burke's successes because of himself? What a sweet game! When players play well, it's because they are good. When they play bad, it's all on the coach.

The truth is, our c5 isn't that talented. Nor do they fit together other than Burke and Favors.

so you are saying all those 5 players suck and corbin is the pwnzor.

well then there is a bigger problem.
and a draft pick wont solve it.
jazz cant evaluate talent

 

[Deleted member 365]

so you are saying all those 5 players suck and corbin is the pwnzor.

well then there is a bigger problem.
and a draft pick wont solve it.
jazz cant evaluate talent

I love this all or nothing approach many of you are taking.

It's like... If Corbin isn't the serpernt who deceived Adam and Eve and killed Jewish babies in Poland during the 30s, then you're a huge Corbin fan that hates the C5.

Guys, listen, it's not that simple. Try to listen to people instead of maintaining a rigid ideology no matter what others say.

The C5 is a bunch of role players (with the exception) of Favors. Their strengths DO NOT offset their weaknesses (other than Burke and Favors). For most of them to be effective 1 or more of them must be off the floor. They don't fit together and often do not play well together.

Give them Phil Jackson or Pop and they're still out of the playoffs.

Not enough shooting, athleticism, and defense to get the job done. IMO, serious decisions need to be made about Kanter and Burks. To me, they rarely appear as starting material for a playoff team. Kanter's lack of athleticism and defense kills his potential. Burks? Is a complete ballhog who will probably end up in Minny or Milwaukee where he can jack up ill-advised shot after ill-advised shot in another year or two. He's the definition of a volume shooter. Never will be a player on a playoff team. Never. He, Monta, Jennings, Wall, etc will all have fine careers, I'm sure. Just as Gilbert Arenas did. Lots of chucking not very many Ws.

Hayward? Could start on playoff teams but only as maybe a 4th option.

Burke and Favors are keepers.

Please, don't crucify me anymore for stating the truth. This is what we all wanted. We wanted to see if the C4-5 was any good. We're seeing this. And really, it isn't much different than what most of us suspected. Burke and Favors, awesome. Hayward, a role player. Burke a ballhog. Kanter meh.

 

[ijazz]

Thriller.

You are dead on.

This is a business and everyone should be on notice and trad offers fielded.

Trey Burk - Way too early for me. Shows promos.

Gtime - No way you can evaluate on this team. At best a #2 option, most likely a #3. Replaceable

Jefferson - Vet, bench player serves role.

Favors - Can be a beast. Remember at contract time his agent expressed desire to keep core together and Jazz thought they could.
If we break up, will this impact him ?

Kanter - not sold he has the commitment.

 

[ijazz]

Forgot

Burks - Alley ball player for me. He will thrive on this crappy team. Put him on a contender and he would get benched

 

[Getting Traded]

The problem isn't the rotations, it's the players. Unless you have some insight on how he's not utilizing his players strengths correctly or strengthening their weaknesses, then this should be the last post on this issue.

He's using players haphazardly without any plan, that's the problem! Plus he's not using the right players at the right time in the right situations. Not only that he gives confusing signals, rewarding people who suck and play terrible, and benching people for no reason whatsoever. Furthermore, this kind of management confuses the players and does not instill confidence in their abilities. Overall, it just destroys chemistry and makes players uncomfortable and unable to play up to their potential. I think this has been said many times before in many different ways. And now Thriller is on the bandwagon that the players suck when for three years he's been criticizing Corbin -- well, Thriller, did you ever play in a situation where the Captain or manager doesn't know what he's doing and you don't know your role and are unsure when you will see PT -- it's not easy to play well in that situation or up to your potential. You need PT and confidence from your coach!

 

[vj_74]

[When you have either drafted or stockpiled 5 or 6 lotto picks, many of them high picks and not one of them looks anywhere close to being an all star material in their second or third years(Burke still has time), then it might also be less about the coach and more about the FO and their talent judging and scouting abilities. Because lets face it, even if the coaching isnt exactly great it is difficult to really mask or negate or put a leash on real talent. Lebron would have been all star material right away away even if Dunleavy or Isaiah Thomas were coaching him. Great talent often overcomes mediocre coaching. So while Corbin could be a problem, the actual problems could very well run deeper.
Consider, for starters, our FOs decision of drafting Hayward over Paul George. This could come to haunt us, like the Lopez drafting over Parker, though I still hope that Hayward has another level in him..

 

[Doublea]

[When you have either drafted or stockpiled 5 or 6 lotto picks, many of them high picks and not one of them looks anywhere close to being an all star material in their second or third years(Burke still has time), then it might also be less about the coach and more about the FO and their talent judging and scouting abilities. Because lets face it, even if the coaching isnt exactly great it is difficult to really mask or negate or put a leash on real talent. Lebron would have been all star material right away away even if Dunleavy or Isaiah Thomas were coaching him. Great talent often overcomes mediocre coaching. So while Corbin could be a problem, the actual problems could very well run deeper.
Consider, for starters, our FOs decision of drafting Hayward over Paul George. This could come to haunt us, like the Lopez drafting over Parker, though I still hope that Hayward has another level in him..

Oh my eff, if one more person brings up the we drafted so one so, instead of so one so. Literally any of those guys could have been busts.

 

[Notes]

I could see someone trying to argue that the problem was the players IF the Jazz had some sort of... you know, DIRECTION they were trying to go in. This team is just a jumble of heaping trash that has no idea what it's doing, and that is squarely on the shoulders of the coach.

The Suns were projected to be the worst team in the league and they have arguably worse than or equal talent to the Jazz. They may not end up making the playoffs, but they clearly have a direction they are moving in and are showing vast improvements. That is the difference between a decent coach and a clueless blockhead running the show.

 

[The Midnight]

I could see someone trying to argue that the problem was the players IF the Jazz had some sort of... you know, DIRECTION they were trying to go in. This team is just a jumble of heaping trash that has no idea what it's doing, and that is squarely on the shoulders of the coach.

The Suns were projected to be the worst team in the league and they have arguably worse than or equal talent to the Jazz. They may not end up making the playoffs, but they clearly have a direction they are moving in and are showing vast improvements. That is the difference between a decent coach and a clueless blockhead running the show.

Cool name bro.


Rep'd.