Favors, Hayward and Burke

[fishonjazz]

he's not exactly being set up to succeed. Hayward is not a high volume shooter, yet Ty continues to force him to be. While he has Burks relegated to the bench, and he seems more able to fill that role. Hayward is more of a spot up shooter and slasher while Burks can do that as well, and is more capable shooting off the dribble, but to say he's having a bad year is a little strong, as the system, and team philosophy is holding him back. I have a feeling that if someone like Sloan were coaching, we'd be singing Haywards praises.

He has not but it is obvious why.

Sure there are good reasons to why he has sucked and he is better than he has shown

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[Thee Jazz Fan]

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It's not that Hayward is having a bad year more then Ty is a bad coach.

 

[One Brow]

Competitive players perform well against strong teams!

That's a myth. Competitive players play worse against strong teams, just like everyone else, for any non-circular definition of competitive.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Competitive players perform well against strong teams! Hayward often struggles against strong teams.

You don't watch many jazz games do you. Hayward has a really bad game, and all of a sudden he's not competitive. It's stupid crap like this that made me decide to take over a week off of posting on jazzfanz.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Competitive players perform well against strong teams! Hayward often struggles against strong teams.

By this logic Burke isn't competitive, because he stunk it up as well, or Malone isn't a competitive player since he missed those foul shots in the finals in the biggest moment vs the bulls?

 

[akirac73]

Great question. Also, Gordon's shooting percentage and points totals will improve. As will his assist to turnover ratio. I see him as a guy who will get about 18 points 5 rebounds and 5 assists with about 46% shooting when he is on a good team. He will probably average less than two turnovers per game as well. He is going through some growing pains right now, and is still very impressive about 75% of the time.

Great analysis...so you're saying that his FG%, scoring and ast/TO ratio will improve simply because you think it will happen, and totally disregard what we've seen so far this season? OK.
As far as Gordon "being impressive 75% of the time"...The league average FG% is 45%. Hayward has shot below average in 19 out of 26 games or roughly 73% of the time. I know he had some nice games with rebounding and assists (although the high turnovers negates this) but to say he was "impressive" 75% of the time is totally delusional...

 

[b_line]

Great analysis...so you're saying that his FG%, scoring and ast/TO ratio will improve simply because you think it will happen, and totally disregard what we've seen so far this season? OK.
As far as Gordon "being impressive 75% of the time"...The league average FG% is 45%. Hayward has shot below average in 19 out of 26 games or roughly 73% of the time. I know he had some nice games with rebounding and assists (although the high turnovers negates this) but to say he was "impressive" 75% of the time is totally delusional...

He will improve because of the law of averages. His entire career he has shot better than this season, and had less turnovers. Every statistic points to him improving on that after adjusting to a new role on the offense. Every player goes through huge growing pains when their usage rate jumps that considerably. Paul George shot like 40% last season, and had more turnovers than before, it is just something that happens when the role changes.

So yes, he will definitely improve, but not because I think so, but because the stats say so.

 

[akirac73]

We all know that if you plug an elite player into this lineup, that Hayward gets better..... as well as everybody else on the team.

Why do people keep perpetuating this myth? Look at the Miami Heat. When Lebron James was added to the team, suddenly Wade and Bosh's numbers went down, it didn't go up...it's simple math, there are only so many points/assist/rebounds to be had in a game. You add an elite player to the Jazz he will take away points/reb/asts from a player like Hayward. Hayward may become more efficient (i.e. shoot the ball better, maybe turnovers go down) with a star player on the roster, but his numbers will definitely go down.

 

[Diamond77]

You don't watch many jazz games do you. Hayward has a really bad game, and all of a sudden he's not competitive.

"Teach Gordon Hayward toughness".

 

[b_line]

Why do people keep perpetuating this myth? Look at the Miami Heat. When Lebron James was added to the team, suddenly Wade and Bosh's numbers went down, it didn't go up...it's simple math, there are only so many points/assist/rebounds to be had in a game. You add an elite player to the Jazz he will take away points/reb/asts from a player like Hayward. Hayward may become more efficient (i.e. shoot the ball better, maybe turnovers go down) with a star player on the roster, but his numbers will definitely go down.

The whole teams efficiency went up though. That is what they are talking about. Thee jazz fan said Hayward should be averaging around 14 points with 7 assists in like the same post. That is less scoring than he is doing now. But his efficiency, ie turnovers and shooting percentage, are sure to improve with an elite number one option.

 

[akirac73]

He will improve because of the law of averages. His entire career he has shot better than this season, and had less turnovers. Every statistic points to him improving on that after adjusting to a new role on the offense. Every player goes through huge growing pains when their usage rate jumps that considerably. Paul George shot like 40% last season, and had more turnovers than before, it is just something that happens when the role changes.

So yes, he will definitely improve, but not because I think so, but because the stats say so.

His career stats show that his shooting % has progressively declined in each of his 4 seasons, and his turnovers have increased in each of his 4 seasons. So those stats/trends tell you that Hayward will suddenly shoot better and turnover the ball less? OK.

 

[b_line]

His career stats show that his shooting % has progressively declined in each of his 4 seasons, and his turnovers have increased in each of his 4 seasons. So those stats/trends tell you that Hayward will suddenly shoot better and turnover the ball less? OK.

Turnovers per 36 have stayed almost exactly the same except this year. I expect him to shoot around 45% eventually because he can shoot threes and free throws at a high rate, and once a coach runs plays with him in the right spots, he will shoot better. This tirade you have against Hayward is getting old. If you refuse to be logical, then go ahead with your stupid bs crap, but nobody but the trolls are buying it.