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Utah Jazz VS the cavs moo....Fri. Jan 10 7:00 PM ROOT Sports 97.5 FM / 1280 AM / 960 AM

nateboz said:
I have to imagine you have watched actually watched Stock and Malone. So thinking that Trey and Favors are anything like them is a far cry. It's like saying a 63 Corvette is comparable to a 2010 Mustang. They both have fans. Not a bad car but its obvious that one is superior to the other. If you honestly think that Favors and Trey or Alec, Enes, Gordon have a chance to be on that level I've got some obvious bad news for you.
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Maybe we should all just find another team to root for then? I'm so confused!
 
nateboz said:
Even as a rookie Karl was a stud. By his 4th year he was playing at an all star level. Favors Kanter Burks and Hayward are still not.
I'm not saying they never will never be an allstar. I'm saying they aren't perennial all stars. That is what the jazz need. And they most likely need 2 or 3 to win a title.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using JazzFanz mobile app
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Karl was 23 in his rookie season. He was older than seven of the players on our team are right now (Burks, Burke, Clark, Favors, Gobert, Hayward and Kanter). You are claiming you can predict the future of all of those guys and I am saying you don't know nearly as much as you think you do. I remember Karl's rookie season well. I thought he was great and I agree with you that it was easier to see his star power at that point than Stockton's, but nobody foresaw the career he eventually put together. I'll bet that if Karl had been drafted at age 19 people like you would have given up on him by the time he was 23.
 
nateboz said:
I have to imagine you have watched actually watched Stock and Malone. So thinking that Trey and Favors are anything like them is a far cry. It's like saying a 63 Corvette is comparable to a 2010 Mustang. They both have fans. Not a bad car but its obvious that one is superior to the other. If you honestly think that Favors and Trey or Alec, Enes, Gordon have a chance to be on that level I've got some obvious bad news for you.
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Well, many people with much better knowledge of basketball (scouts and GMs) have been watching Karl and John play for 4 seasons by the time they turned 22. And they decided that no way that these two could become stars. It was quite obvious to them that Wayman Tisdale, Jon Koncak and Benoit Benjamin would become the future star bigs and Lancaster Gordon and Leon Wood - future star guards.
 
I don't get the Kanter fanboys.
EK played 25 minutes and played very well, 15/10 baby!
Now that is improvement and development!
25 minutes of NBA bball is what EK needs for now, and also good rebounding!
He will be fine!
and the loss is a win! (poor Orwellian reversal attempt)
 
[table="width: 700, class: grid, align: center"]
[tr]
[td]Name[/td]
[td]Season[/td]
[td]Age[/td]
[td]Experience[/td]
[td]MIN[/td]
[td]PTS[/td]
[td]FG%[/td]
[td]FT%[/td]
[td]REB[/td]
[td]AST[/td]
[td]STL[/td]
[td]BLK[/td]
[td]TOV[/td]
[td]TS%[/td]
[td]eFG%[/td]
[td]TRB%[/td]
[td]AST%[/td]
[td]TOV%[/td]
[td]USG%[/td]
[td]ORtg[/td]
[td]DRtg[/td]
[td]NetRtg[/td]
[td]WS/48[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Malone[/td]
[td]1985-86[/td]
[td]22[/td]
[td]Rookie[/td]
[td]30.6[/td]
[td]14.9[/td]
[td].496[/td]
[td].481[/td]
[td]8.9[/td]
[td]2.9[/td]
[td]1.3[/td]
[td]0.5[/td]
[td]3.4[/td]
[td].504[/td]
[td].496[/td]
[td]15.8[/td]
[td]14.2[/td]
[td]18.9[/td]
[td]24.1[/td]
[td]92[/td]
[td]102[/td]
[td]-10[/td]
[td].036[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Favors[/td]
[td]2013-14[/td]
[td]22[/td]
[td]3 years[/td]
[td]31.6[/td]
[td]13.5[/td]
[td].527[/td]
[td].680[/td]
[td]8.9[/td]
[td]1.3[/td]
[td]1.1[/td]
[td]1.4[/td]
[td]2.0[/td]
[td].542[/td]
[td].517[/td]
[td]16[/td]
[td]7.1[/td]
[td]14[/td]
[td]20.2[/td]
[td]107[/td]
[td]105[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td].091[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Kanter[/td]
[td]2013-14[/td]
[td]21[/td]
[td]2 years[/td]
[td]25.4[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td].471[/td]
[td].770[/td]
[td]6.1[/td]
[td]0.9[/td]
[td]0.4[/td]
[td]0.7[/td]
[td]1.9[/td]
[td].504[/td]
[td].471[/td]
[td]13.5[/td]
[td]6.1[/td]
[td]14.6[/td]
[td]22.7[/td]
[td]97[/td]
[td]110[/td]
[td]-13[/td]
[td].022[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

I looked up the stats for you guys. At the age of 22 Derrick is a better rebounder than Karl, he has a better FG% and FT% than Karl, doesn't turn the ball as much over as Karl and in contrast to Karl he is actually not a bad faktor while in the game(Derrick: +2, Karl: -10). But Karl had more points and was the better passer and all of that with a higher USG% which means he was more susceptible for mistakes. Obviously the stats don't tell the whole story and certainly don't show how a player will develop but how can anybody say that some of the guys won't develop into a star? I wasn't even born when Karl was a rookie so I can't really make a statement how he looked when he was on the court, but after really analyzing the stats could anybody really predict that he will be a star in this League? To be honest I don't.
On a side note: It would be really nice to see(or not) how Corbin would've handled Karl when he was 22.
 
enes kanter is fully healed i guess so i wanna **** corbin because enes needs pt and i don't agree with you Tarkanian. Ride Enes for 48 minutes amk
 
If we got rid of Marvin, and RJ I'd be ok more with any result. Winning with these two guys is upsetting for the future.

Again we truly haven't turned this team over to the young guns. Trey gets the start, but there is zero competition. Burks gets more
playing time, but not enough. Marvin is finally easier on the stomach, but is he apart of our future? Why on earth is RJ even here?

I thought the plan was clear to start out the season. Play and develop the young guys, lose games most likely, and get the high pick to go with what would have been our seasoned core next year. Now its like lets play vets who probably won't be here next year, and win just enough games to not get a good lotto pick, and not make the playoffs? What the hell Jazz?!!? Dennis what exactly is your plan?
 
Favors, Hay, and Trey are getting the work this year, but why not throw Burks, Gobert, and Kanter completely into the fire as well? Shouldn't they learn how to play together a lot? Shouldn't they learn how to win now without the vets? Does winning games this year with Marvin and RJ as featured players mean anything?
 
Revolution 9 said:
Favors, Hay, and Trey are getting the work this year, but why not throw Burks, Gobert, and Kanter completely into the fire as well? Shouldn't they learn how to play together a lot? Shouldn't they learn how to win now without the vets? Does winning games this year with Marvin and RJ as featured players mean anything?
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This team in the long turn would be much better with Kanter starting ahead of Marvin. Marvin just gives 3 point shooting and passing, he can not defend anyone right their. Tristan totally humiliated him, but Corbin gave him 28 minutes, because he hit a damn three the start of the game.
Kanter is not the same Kanter he was at the start of the season. At the start of the season we saw Kanter without motor and strenght getting 14/8. I really would love to see how Kanter would do right now as a starter with having his motor and strenght back. Dude is special but Corbin is a ****in idiot...
 
CAKAR said:
This team in the long turn would be much better with Kanter starting ahead of Marvin. Marvin just gives 3 point shooting and passing, he can not defend anyone right their. Tristan totally humiliated him, but Corbin gave him 28 minutes, because he hit a damn three the start of the game.
Kanter is not the same Kanter he was at the start of the season. At the start of the season we saw Kanter without motor and strenght getting 14/8. I really would love to see how Kanter would do right now as a starter with having his motor and strenght back. Dude is special but Corbin is a ****in idiot...
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In the case of Corbin as Idiot, that is not the case. Much of Corbin's methods are style or a philosophical choice. Substitution patterns he learned from Jerry. I can see disagreeing, but his not an idiot. The Jazz bring along younger guys with less minutes This is a reasonble ' long term strategy. Kanter in particular struggled at the start of the Season so it was a good a good idea to limit his minutes. It is also clear that Kanter is/has his game back now. But that doesn't mean it works for the team to drop Marvin out and Put in Kanter without some smooth transition. That action, if drastic, would cause serious locker room grief. Kanter has to be "melded"in. And... there is no pressing reason to push too hard for the transition. Kanter is getting time in the "B- league" and that has been good for him.
 
Revolution 9 said:
Favors, Hay, and Trey are getting the work this year, but why not throw Burks, Gobert, and Kanter completely into the fire as well? Shouldn't they learn how to play together a lot? Shouldn't they learn how to win now without the vets? Does winning games this year with Marvin and RJ as featured players mean anything?
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why not "throw them in"?
The JAZZ (jerry and TY at least) have shown their preference for system development as a priority. I believe this is part of the reason for vet preference . Other players, like Hayward, Favors, Burke are beneficiaries of Marvin RJ playing. It is clear to all that Trey Burke is vital for the JAZZ offense to run. Hence he gets full (non-rookie) Mins. I think there are many more factors in play, and worth managing than just putting all the kids together "into the fire" I think the role for Burks this year has been good. He is progressing well, gets burn at end of games and appears to like his situation (my impression from watching)

Ultimately, it appears the jazz are using this year to both develop and tank... And that plan is debatable by us fans . ("Just tank, baby" is the other)

BTW- this game was tanked in my opinion. Hayward is out,and all of a sudden , the whole rotation is different.
 
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