Looking for genuine discourse re:Jay-Z/NBA

[Stoked]

Forgive me my good liberal friend, but I definitely did not mean to suggest that discrimination was merely historical. It lives.


In an effort to do well by Stoked, I've reviewed many of his posts in this thread and in others in order to determine the "rule" of his engagements, and the "exception" of his engagements with franklin. I'm new here, and perhaps stoked's subtleties are beyond me, but the only person he seems to approach exceptionally is PKM. These two men seem to have a warm bond, which is nice to see. Exceptional, one might say.

haha.

I try to be approachable to almost everyone. I have no real problems with anyone here. Good to see you posting and I look forward to reading your future posts.

 

[Willie]

haha.

I try to be approachable to almost everyone. I have no real problems with anyone here. Good to see you posting and I look forward to reading your future posts.

My sense is that the directness of my style and the spiritual core of my messages will have little effect on you. But, still, I'm glad to hear you'll keep an eye out for my posts.

 

[Stoked]

My sense is that the directness of my style and the spiritual core of my messages will have little effect on you. But, still, I'm glad to hear you'll keep an eye out for my posts.

Lol, why?

Also does one have to be affected to be friendly and approachable? Believe it or not but I am fairly open to posts with a spiritual nature.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Perhaps this is part of the liberal blindness that [size/HUGE] fixed [/size] referred to, but I really don't care much about laying what happened in the past on anyone. The racism of the past is only relevant to the degree that it affects the racism of today.

If you want to see where racism "truly exists", try an experiment of your own. Take ten resumes, and post two copies of each to various job sites, identical except for their names. Assign a stereotypically white name to one, and a stereotypically black name to another. Make sure to identify their presumptive race on the EEOC forms. Count the number of responses these identical resumes receive from all the HR people all across the US. The only thing this exercise will cost you is time.

Take those results, multiple them by the differing treatment they get once they are employed, while in school, while driving, when applying for a loan, etc., and you will see where racism lives (that is, it is everywhere).

If you really want to see inside yourself, visit Project Implicit and take a few surveys. Don't answer so slowly that you invalidate the results, as another poster did.

You have completed the African American - European American IAT.
Your Result
Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for African American compared to European American.

Thank you for your participation. Just below is a breakdown of the scores generated by others. Most respondents find it easier to associate African American with Bad and European American with Good compared to the reverse.
Race score distribution

Many of the questions that you answered on the previous page have been addressed in research over the last 10 years. For example, the order that you performed the response pairing is influential, but procedural corrections largely eliminate that influence (see FAQ #1). Each visitor to the site completes the task in a randomized order. If you would like to learn more about the IAT, please visit the FAQs and background information section.

When I get time I'll take more of them.

Take this with a grain of salt, I think it was skewed one way, but I might have to do it again to be sure. My first impression right after was that they put African American pictures then a "bad" word back to back more often than with a "good" word, and they put European American pictures then a "good" word more often than with a "bad" word following. It was fast though, so that was just an impression. I also think I messed up a couple of times, and those errors are why I got the result I got. I'm pretty sure I'm closer to right in the middle. *(maybe the quick mistakes are what they are going for though)

It is interesting how the larger percentages from this "survey" end up favoring European Americans, but am unsure if it has something to how they tie the words and pictures together. If they are 50/50 in how they split it up, and if they do another one where they first associate bad with European American pictures it might skew the results that way as people first learn to associate "bad" words with European American pictures and will keep that association when they start to change things up.

Basically I find it interesting, but find it leading and am not sure to what extent. Would like to see a second one with the change I mentioned and would like an even split on both of good and bad associated with the different pictures.

Thanks for the tip, btw.

Oh, just noticed the picture graph didn't show up in the quote. It showed 27% 27% 16% for strong, moderate, and slight white preference, 17% little to no preference, and 6% 4% 2% for slight moderate and strong preference towards blacks.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

3- racism is an expression of a cultural and social structure vs racism is just a bunch of individual actions (here in the US)
4- racism comes from the nature of human cognition vs racism is a set of beliefs that are counter to human nature
5- racism can only be acknowledged and adjusted for in a person vs racism can be absent from a person

As for "the boy who called racist", my recommendation is to trust the data.

Correction on 4. I think we are more in agreement on this one. I think it takes effort, thought, desire, and an effort to love all people to counter any sort of racism learning that has gone on.

Thinking of how to address 3 and 5.

Question for you on 5. Do you think babies are born racist, or is it learned?

 

[Stoked]

Correction on 4. I think we are more in agreement on this one. I think it takes effort, thought, desire, and an effort to love all people to counter any sort of racism learning that has gone on.

Thinking of how to address 3 and 5.

Question for you on 5. Do you think babies are born racist, or is it learned?

For #3 I'd go with:

3- racism can be an expression of a cultural and social structure. It can also be is just a bunch of individual actions.

 

[franklin]

I'm new to these terms, so let me make sure I'm interpreting you correctly. You're saying that, in this thread, I am focusing a little too much on the thought and feelings we have as people with the US (emic), and not enough on how racism is created and endures from a psychological viewpoint (etic). Is that what you mean?

As was I. FWIW, if I had to define you with only one of those two terms I would have picked opposite DDuck.

 

[Bodhi]

I've read like 12 posts in this thread and concluded this: General Discusion is stupid.

 

[franklin]

Perhaps this is part of the liberal blindness that [size/HUGE] fixed [/size] referred to, but I really don't care much about laying what happened in the past on anyone. The racism of the past is only relevant to the degree that it affects the racism of today.

If you want to see where racism "truly exists", try an experiment of your own. Take ten resumes, and post two copies of each to various job sites, identical except for their names. Assign a stereotypically white name to one, and a stereotypically black name to another. Make sure to identify their presumptive race on the EEOC forms. Count the number of responses these identical resumes receive from all the HR people all across the US. The only thing this exercise will cost you is time.

Take those results, multiple them by the differing treatment they get once they are employed, while in school, while driving, when applying for a loan, etc., and you will see where racism lives (that is, it is everywhere).

If you really want to see inside yourself, visit Project Implicit and take a few surveys. Don't answer so slowly that you invalidate the results, as another poster did.

Do you know of any studies that show a breakdown by income? I'm more interested in the details than the overall, and have a bit of a hard time believing at face value that there's significant discrimination at the, say, $60k + level.

I'm also interested in finding out if Asian names garner more attention than whites. If I were an employer then I'd interview every Asian name before anyone else based on their stereotypical work ethic.

 

[♪alt13]

When did black people start getting a pass for using racially discriminatory language? I regularly read that essays on that topic.

Just because someone wrote an essay does not automatically make their views reflective of the attitudes of our society. I get the history and it lends me more patience when a black person holds racially divisive attitudes but that does not mean that I will pretend that it is ok. What seems to be missing from the conversation here is where we are/should be headed as a society and how to get there. The skeletons in our collective closet should be used to understand our present but our goals and aspirations should be used to shape our standards.

If Jay Z does in fact espouse this nonsense then no I would not equate it with Sterlings remarks but I would be quick to condemn it as crazy stupid and wrong. There is no room in our future for the bigotry of our past imo.

 

[Willie]

Lol, why?

Also does one have to be affected to be friendly and approachable? Believe it or not but I am fairly open to posts with a spiritual nature.

While you do seem to be respectful to many posters on this board, the alacrity with which you give strong opinions about how people in general should behave and dress seems like evidence that you aren't as open-minded as you suggest. But maybe that's just internet venting on your part. Or maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Stoked]

While you do seem to be respectful to many posters on this board, the alacrity with which you give strong opinions about how people in general should behave and dress seems like evidence that you aren't as open-minded as you suggest. But maybe that's just internet venting on your part. Or maybe I'm wrong.

Lol, My comments towards One Brow were constructive criticism on what I thought would be a better approach for his message. Toward franklin, he is openly vulgar, dismissive and insulting towards me so I have no use for him. He was brought up by another poster so I clarified.

So you came in during that exact discussion. Yes I have strong opinions but I am also more than willing to allow others theirs. Even when I strongly disagree. I never mentioned how others should dress, however that does not mean I cannot have opinions on style.

I'd suggest you go back and look at who has been intentionaly insulting and agressive. Has not been me.