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Guru thread.. questions inside.

Dr. Jones

Dr. Jones

In pursuit of #9
Contributor
I mean guru in the most positive way. I have a few questions for those that follow salaries, rules, etc.. better than I do.

These questions pertain to '16/'17;

1) Looking at our current roster (no predictions), am I looking at it correctly that we will have only two players with guaranteed contracts? (Hayward and Favors)

2) Team options are Exum, Burke, Gobert, and Hood?

Now a couple more general questions;

1) Is there a cap of number of players one team that are a) max, or b) rookie contracts?


It for now. Thanks.
 
1. Yes. 2. Yes.

General questions:
1. a. No, BUT there is a max number of players that can be "designated players"(5 year contract-extension, as opposed to 4-year). Those are usually signed to max deals. Each team can offer this type of contract-extension to 1 "rookie"-player at a certain time. For example, if we offer Burke 5-year contract-extension we can't offer anybody else a 5-year contract-extension until Burke's contract expires(or he's traded). Very few players are offered this type of contract. Currently those are Kyrie Irving, Paul George, Blake Griffin, James Harden, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook and John Wall. There's an exception - you can get a second player with a "designated player" contract via trade, but not a third one.

b. Not that I know of...
 
PKM said:
I mean guru in the most positive way. I have a few questions for those that follow salaries, rules, etc.. better than I do.

These questions pertain to '16/'17;

1) Looking at our current roster (no predictions), am I looking at it correctly that we will have only two players with guaranteed contracts? (Hayward and Favors)

2) Team options are Exum, Burke, Gobert, and Hood?

It for now. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Well, Jazz COULD also have an option on Carrick Felix. But yes, you are correct. Only two guaranteed contracts and TEAM options on the four you mentioned.


Now a couple more general questions;

1) Is there a cap of number of players one team that are a) max, or b) rookie contracts?
Click to expand...

No, there is no cap number of players with max contracts, with one caveat: teams are limited to having two players on 5 year deals ("Designated" players). They can sign one player to that type of deal and acquire another via trade.

From Larry Coon's FAQ page:
"Rookie scale contracts may be extended for up to four seasons beyond the last option season in the contract, bringing the total contract length to five seasons. Teams can also select one player (called their "Designated Player") who can receive a five-year extension, bringing the total contract length to six seasons. A team can have at most one player on its roster whom they have designated for a longer extension, plus at most one player designated by another team whom they acquired in trade.

For example, the Oklahoma City Thunder extended Russell Westbrook's rookie scale contract in 2011 (with the extension taking effect in 2012-13). They selected Westbrook as their Designated Player and extended him through 2016-17 (five new years, six total). The Thunder therefore are not allowed to designate another player for a five-year extension (Kevin Durant signed his five-year extension under the 2005 CBA) until 2017, as long as Westbrook is on their roster. However, they can trade for one (and only one) player who was designated by another team."


The complete list of Designated Players is as follows:
[TABLE="class: lefttable"]
[TR]
[TH]Team[/TH]
[TH]Designated Player[/TH]
[TH]Expires[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Chicago[/TD]
[TD]Derrick Rose[/TD]
[TD]2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Houston[/TD]
[TD]James Harden[/TD]
[TD]2018[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Indiana[/TD]
[TD]Paul George[/TD]
[TD]2018[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]LA Clippers[/TD]
[TD]Blake Griffin[/TD]
[TD]2018[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Oklahoma City[/TD]
[TD]Russell Westbrook[/TD]
[TD]2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Washington[/TD]
[TD]John Wall[/TD]
[TD]2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This list is only up to date through last season. IINM, Irving received a 5-yr deal from the Cavs, so add his name to the list.

Neither Favors nor Hayward are "Designated Players" so Utah still has the 5-yr option available to give to Trey Burke (just kidding).
 
I thought the 5/30 contract restriction was only on extensions and not to free agent contracts? Like they could extend one guy for 5/30, and sign their own rfa to a 5/30 deal?
 
b_line said:
I thought the 5/30 contract restriction was only on extensions and not to free agent contracts? Like they could extend one guy for 5/30, and sign their own rfa to a 5/30 deal?
Click to expand...
Nope. If you give a player 5 yrs., he is your "Designated Player." That's one reason the Jazz only offered 4 years to Favors (as did Sacramento with Cousins). Also why it made more sense for Utah to wait for an offer sheet to match with Hayward. He could only get an offer sheet for 4 years, which automatically means he's NOT a "Designated Player." I'm sure he asked for a 5 year deal from Utah with 7.5% raises vs. the 4 year with 4.5% he received from Charlotte.
 
BTW a little addendum on the "designated player" - it is reserved only for players on rookie contracts and it covers only EXTENSIONS of the rookie-contract - i.e. you can sign a veteran for 5-years extension without him becoming the "designated player". And one more caveat - it doesn't apply to second round picks or undrafted players. You can sign a second round pick to a 5-year extension without him taking the "designated player" spot.
 
Core4 said:
Nope. If you give a player 5 yrs., he is your "Designated Player." That's one reason the Jazz only offered 4 years to Favors (as did Sacramento with Cousins). Also why it made more sense for Utah to wait for an offer sheet to match with Hayward. He could only get an offer sheet for 4 years, which automatically means he's NOT a "Designated Player." I'm sure he asked for a 5 year deal from Utah with 7.5% raises vs. the 4 year with 4.5% he received from Charlotte.
Click to expand...

That's not exactly correct. For example Pekovic signed a 5 year deal with Minnesota but he's not their designated player. "Designated player" covers only extensions for first-round players signed on their rookie contracts.

To simplify it - the qualification for 30% offer is how many years in the league you have - if you have 7-9 years you can get 30% offer and you can get a 5 year deal without being the designated player(because it's not an extension to your rookie contract) on the Larry Bird rule(you can sign your own player whose contract has expired to a new 5-year deal). As an example for this, think of Carmelo Anthony's contract. Although, he's getting more than 30% but that's because he's entitled to more than 30% because he's got more than 9 years. [yeah, I don't think i simplified it, but I hope you are following my train of thought]. So, the 30/5 rule for a player on a rookie contract can be given to designated players that cover some other requirements - all star appearances, etc.

In other words - you can give your own veterans whose contract have expired max-5 year deals. while still giving max-5 year deal to a player on a rookie contract using the "designated player" clause. You just can't sign 2 of your own rookies at the same time to a designated player extension.
 
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stitches said:
That's not exactly correct. For example Pekovic signed a 5 year deal with Minnesota but he's not their designated player. "Designated player" covers only extensions for first-round players signed on their rookie contracts.
Click to expand...

Thank you for setting core4 straight.

He's getting a little senile.
 
stitches said:
That's not exactly correct. For example Pekovic signed a 5 year deal with Minnesota but he's not their designated player. "Designated player" covers only extensions for first-round players signed on their rookie contracts.
Click to expand...

Thanks. My misunderstanding.
SO we could have offered Hayward a 5-yr max contract and not have had him count as a designated player?
 
Core4 said:
Thanks. My misunderstanding.
SO we could have offered Hayward a 5-yr max contract and not have had him count as a designated player?
Click to expand...

Once his contract have expired, yes. If it was extension(i.e. if we offered him a 5 year contract-extension last year) - no... I think... but I am not 100% certain. Have to check that...
 
stitches said:
Once his contract have expired, yes. If it was extension(i.e. if we offered him a 5 year contract-extension last year) - no... I think... but I am not 100% certain. Have to check that...
Click to expand...

We could have offered Hayward a 5 year deal that started at 25% of the cap with 7.5% raises. However if Hayward like George made the all star team or an All-NBA team his could would have morphed into the 30% deal. Dunno if both are considered designated player contracts. Pacers had the same situation last year I think.
 
stitches said:
No, BUT there is a max number of players that can be "designated players"(5 year contract-extension, as opposed to 4-year). Those are usually signed to max deals.
Click to expand...
Minor correction: The first year of a designated player's contract extension has to be at the max.
 
They should have designated Favors with 7.5% declines to get even one more year of his great value. Have I mentioned I'm in love with the Favors contract?
 
Core4 said:
Nope. If you give a player 5 yrs., he is your "Designated Player." That's one reason the Jazz only offered 4 years to Favors (as did Sacramento with Cousins). Also why it made more sense for Utah to wait for an offer sheet to match with Hayward. He could only get an offer sheet for 4 years, which automatically means he's NOT a "Designated Player." I'm sure he asked for a 5 year deal from Utah with 7.5% raises vs. the 4 year with 4.5% he received from Charlotte.
Click to expand...

stitches said:
BTW a little addendum on the "designated player" - it is reserved only for players on rookie contracts and it covers only EXTENSIONS of the rookie-contract - i.e. you can sign a veteran for 5-years extension without him becoming the "designated player". And one more caveat - it doesn't apply to second round picks or undrafted players. You can sign a second round pick to a 5-year extension without him taking the "designated player" spot.
Click to expand...

Yep. That's what I thought.
 
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