What's new
By:

Has Kessler surpassed Gobert?

Has Kessler surpassed Gobert?

  • Yes, Kessler is better now

    Votes: 9 17.3%

  • They are on the same level

    Votes: 7 13.5%

  • No, Gobert is better now

    Votes: 28 53.8%

  • Too early to know for sure

    Votes: 8 15.4%
  • Total voters
    52
J

jazznik

Well-Known Member
Kessler is getting better while Gobert seems to be slowing down a bit. However, Gobert is still very, very effective: he is the reigning DPOY and has a lot of playoff experience. So, who is the better player now?

For the context, here are some stats for 2024-25 from the Basketball Reference, where I highlighted in orange being slightly better and in red being significantly better.

Traditional, per 36 min:
Kessler -13.5 points, 13.7 rebounds, 3.7 blocks, 1.7 assists, 0.6 steals, 1.8 turnovers
Gobert - 11.1 points, 11.6 rebounds, 1.6 blocks, 2.1 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.6 turnovers.

Scoring efficiency:
Kessler -73% FG, 60% FT, 72% TS.
Gobert - 65% FG, 79% FT, 70% TS.

Advanced:
Kessler - 0.166 WS/48, 2.7 BPM, 0.6 VORP
Gobert - 0.188 WS/48, 0.7 BPM, 0.5 VORP
 
Last edited:
They are in such different situations it's hard to compare. I also haven't watched Gobert much this year.

If we had a team that was trying to compete for something I would want Gobert, so I guess that's my answer gun to my head, but I picked too early to know for sure because I think there are too many variables to really know.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
They are in such different situations it's hard to compare. I also haven't watched Gobert much this year.

If we had a team that was trying to compete for something I would want Gobert, so I guess that's my answer gun to my head, but I picked too early to know for sure because I think there are too many variables to really know.
Click to expand...
One of the big unknowns for me is how well could Kessler perform in the playoffs. And we for sure will not get the answer to that during this offseason.
 
Last edited:
jazznik said:
Kessler is getting better while Gobert seems to be slowing down a bit. However, Gobert is still very, very effective: he is the reigning DPOY and has a lot of playoff experience. So, who is the better player now?

For the context, here are some stats for 2024-25 from the Basketball Reference, where I highlighted in orange being slightly better and in red being significantly better.

Traditional, per 36 min:
Kessler -13.5 points, 13.7 rebounds, 3.7 blocks, 1.7 assists, 0.6 steals, 1.8 turnovers
Gobert - 11.1 points, 11.6 rebounds, 1.6 blocks, 2.1 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.6 turnovers.

Scoring efficiency:
Kessler -73% FG, 60% FT, 72% TS.
Gobert - 65% FG, 79% FT, 70% TS.

Advanced:
Kessler - 0.166 WS/48, 2.7 BPM, 0.6 VORP
Gobert - 0.188 WS/48, 0.7 BPM, 0.5 VORP
Click to expand...
Not for the Jazz gobert. He is definitely more coordinated than gobert, and if the Jazz hold on to him and he pans out like he should, he will probably surpass him.
 
noahthejazz said:
Not for the Jazz gobert. He is definitely more coordinated than gobert, and if the Jazz hold on to him and he pans out like he should, he will probably surpass him.
Click to expand...
Surpass him as in where they are currently, or surpass him as a player for their careers?

There's no way in hell Kessler reaches Gobert's career level IMO, but this year it's a legit conversation and I would assume as the years go on, Gobert will continue to drop and Kessler (hopefully) continues to improve.
 
I havent watched nearly as much Minny this year as last year, but they are seemingly on pretty equal levels currently.

Still, if you made me pick one or the other if I wanted to win games, I would still take Gobert, but it's not by a huge margin and mostly based on trust because Gobert has been doing it for a long time.
 
Walker isn't there yet. May never be. Unlike Gobert, he's as one-dimensional a defender as they come. Strictly a rim protector who can't switch or close out perimeter shooters. Drag Walker to space, away from his comfort zone, and he's completely harmless.

The most disappointing thing about Kessler is that he hasn't been able to improve his FT shooting. Still making 60% from the stripe, which isn't nearly enough and would get him played off the floor in playoff crunch time. Gobert, on the other hand, is shooting a career-best 79%.

Besides, the Per36 stats lie. Kessler plays 29 mpg and frequently gets exhausted. Gobert plays an actual 34mpg. There's no guarantee whatsoever that Walker would put up those stats if you increased his minutes.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Walker isn't there yet. May never be. Unlike Gobert, he's as one-dimensional a defender as they come. Strictly a rim protector who can't switch or close out perimeter shooters. Drag Walker to space, away from his comfort zone, and he's completely harmless.

The most disappointing thing about Kessler is that he hasn't been able to improve his FT shooting. Still making 60% from the stripe, which isn't nearly enough and would get him played off the floor in playoff crunch time. Gobert, on the other hand, is shooting a career-best 79%.

Besides, the Per36 stats lie. Kessler plays 29 mpg and frequently gets exhausted. Gobert plays an actual 34mpg. There's no guarantee whatsoever that Walker would put up those stats if you increased his minutes.
Click to expand...

Gobert's free throw percentage in his 3rd year was 56.9%, so Kessler is actually ahead of the curve from Gobert on that one.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Surpass him as in where they are currently, or surpass him as a player for their careers?

There's no way in hell Kessler reaches Gobert's career level IMO, but this year it's a legit conversation and I would assume as the years go on, Gobert will continue to drop and Kessler (hopefully) continues to improve.
Click to expand...
That's a fair point. Gobert is gonna be the better defensive player in the end, but I think Kessler can be better with the Jazz then Gobert was. There will most likely be a point where current Kessler then is better then current Gobert then
 
Dont you dare! Gobert is the GOAT and Kessler belongs in the G-league.
 
noahthejazz said:
That's a fair point. Gobert is gonna be the better defensive player in the end, but I think Kessler can be better with the Jazz then Gobert was. There will most likely be a point where current Kessler then is better then current Gobert then
Click to expand...
This post is a little confusing, but do you realize at Gobert's peak with the Jazz he has some of the best defensive seasons of all time? He was the only good defender on a top 3 defensive team.
 
You need to win a game tonight and you can pick just one... its Rudy. I'd say its a year away from being a head scratcher maybe. Right now... easy.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Besides, the Per36 stats lie. Kessler plays 29 mpg and frequently gets exhausted. Gobert plays an actual 34mpg. There's no guarantee whatsoever that Walker would put up those stats if you increased his minutes.
Click to expand...
Actually, there likely is a guarantee. Kessler's MPG is low simply because Hardy played him much less in the very first games. In each of his last 6 games Walter played 30+ minutes for the average of 32.5 mpg. And during his last 6 games Kessler averaged 13.5 PPG, 12.5 RPG, 3.5 BPG, 2 APG on 80% FG. It was exactly this most recent stretch of his games that made me wonder and make this thread.

Now, I do not feel that he actually surpassed Gobert - at best, he possibly moved into the same tier of centers. But if Walter maintains the same level of production he showed in his last games over the rest of the season then some people would probably change their answer to the poll's question in April.
 
jazznik said:
Actually, there likely is a guarantee. Kessler's MPG is low simply because Hardy played him much less in the very first games. In each of his last 6 games Walter played 30+ minutes for the average of 32.5 mpg. And during his last 6 games Kessler averaged 13.5 PPG, 12.5 RPG, 3.5 BPG, 2 APG on 80% FG. It was exactly this most recent stretch of his games that made me wonder and make this thread.

Now, I do not feel that he actually surpassed Gobert - at best, he possibly moved into the same tier of centers. But if Walter maintains the same level of production he showed in his last games over the rest of the season then some people would probably change their answer to the poll's question in April.
Click to expand...
Great post. The poster you responded to wont acknowledge the fact that he was incorrect but well done anyway.
 
fishonjazz said:
Great post. The poster you responded to wont acknowledge the fact that he was incorrect but well done anyway.
Click to expand...
Actually, Tremendous Upside made a very valid point: Kessler frequently gets exhausted and less impactful during the games. But that's simply because he gives all that he has on the court running back and fourth like a lunatic, fighting in the paint and setting screens. Gobert used to be that way in his Utah years (and that why he was insanely impactful) but by now he slowed down and plays like a vet, deliberately pacing himself. And that why some of his rebounding and blocking stats declined a bit.

Rudy leans on his experience more than on his energy these days. This season there are enough games when Rudy failed to record a block. For comparison, Walter did not have a single game this season without a blocked shot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top