On the need for a lawyer
- Thread starter One Brow
- Start date
I like cops. I've never had any particularly bad run-ins with them. Growing up I hang out with a guy who as a kid had had the police called to his house several times for domestic violence...because he was beating up his drunk dad. The cops didn't like him. I did watch them put him in handcuffs, set him on the curb and when he started being a smart *** with them they pulled out their pepper spray and soaked him. I don't agree with that stuff, but it was somewhat understandable. He was an enormous POS kid with a couple POS parents. I looked him up a few weeks ago and from what I can tell he's on his third stint at the point.
When I have an encounter with police I'm fully aware that they are not my friends. They are not there to help me. They are not keeping the peace. The police are the front line soldiers in a war against the American people in general, but the poor, the underprivileged and the non-white are disproportionately targeted in this war. It's the war on drugs and it's the biggest problem in the U.S.. It has fundamentally changed the relationship between citizens and the police. They are watching every face, every vehicle, trying to find out if the person they're looking at has committed a crime that has not been reported, a crime for which there is no victim seeking justice, a crime that would never be revealed if the person in question did not have their privacy violated. They are preying on us and sending those they don't like to prison. Released prisoners live according to a much more rigorous and invasive set of rules. Rules that would probably trip up a good number of "law-abiding" citizens and violations just increase the scrutiny and lengthen the justice system's hold on you. Once in the system you’re tainted. If you ever have an interaction with the police, over anything, and they run your info not only are you tainted but everyone willingly associating with you is tainted in the eyes of the police. You and your associates are now going to be subject to the police officer's ability to apply the law selectively...and you just got selected to have all the laws applied to you to the maximum extent. Have a nice day.
I think it is important for everyone always to not consent to searches. Not just because you don't have anything to hide but because this is the primary tactic being used to imprison millions of non-violent people. It is unjust. It is a violation of the 4th Amendment for them to search without your consent without probable cause. Make them follow the constitution and get a warrant when they have a reason to search a vehicle. If they have probable cause they can get a warrant. Make them at least clear that hurdle before inviting them to take away someone's mother or father for possession of a substance very arguably less harmful than tobacco.
Are you aware that when the police stop a vehicle and discover what they deem to be large quantities of cash they get to keep the cash? If you can provide a paper trail for the cash they might give it back after a while. If you cannot prove how you got the cash they keep it. It's a fun game for the Highway Patrol. When I say "they" keep the cash I mean the police department that confiscated it. It pays for overtime, new vehicles, more officer positions, etc.. Same goes for any property when they find any drugs. So if they find weed in your band new pickup, they just scored a new pickup truck that they can auction off. The property confiscation is a civil matter and it's you who has to sue them to get it back. Good luck with that. The police departments are being motivated to find reasons to confiscate property. Once confiscated they don't even need to charge you criminally to keep the property.
Anyway, at some point in the future we'll look back at this time and shake our heads. It'll be a source of shame along the same lines as slavery and the treatment of Native Americans. I know many of you don't see it that way right now, but I'm sorry, you're wrong. The war on drugs is a tragedy. It’s not just harming druggies, it’s harming the way the people interact with the government and it is a force preventing the end of cultural segregation between whites and minorities.
When I have an encounter with police I'm fully aware that they are not my friends. They are not there to help me. They are not keeping the peace. The police are the front line soldiers in a war against the American people in general, but the poor, the underprivileged and the non-white are disproportionately targeted in this war. It's the war on drugs and it's the biggest problem in the U.S.. It has fundamentally changed the relationship between citizens and the police. They are watching every face, every vehicle, trying to find out if the person they're looking at has committed a crime that has not been reported, a crime for which there is no victim seeking justice, a crime that would never be revealed if the person in question did not have their privacy violated. They are preying on us and sending those they don't like to prison. Released prisoners live according to a much more rigorous and invasive set of rules. Rules that would probably trip up a good number of "law-abiding" citizens and violations just increase the scrutiny and lengthen the justice system's hold on you. Once in the system you’re tainted. If you ever have an interaction with the police, over anything, and they run your info not only are you tainted but everyone willingly associating with you is tainted in the eyes of the police. You and your associates are now going to be subject to the police officer's ability to apply the law selectively...and you just got selected to have all the laws applied to you to the maximum extent. Have a nice day.
I think it is important for everyone always to not consent to searches. Not just because you don't have anything to hide but because this is the primary tactic being used to imprison millions of non-violent people. It is unjust. It is a violation of the 4th Amendment for them to search without your consent without probable cause. Make them follow the constitution and get a warrant when they have a reason to search a vehicle. If they have probable cause they can get a warrant. Make them at least clear that hurdle before inviting them to take away someone's mother or father for possession of a substance very arguably less harmful than tobacco.
Are you aware that when the police stop a vehicle and discover what they deem to be large quantities of cash they get to keep the cash? If you can provide a paper trail for the cash they might give it back after a while. If you cannot prove how you got the cash they keep it. It's a fun game for the Highway Patrol. When I say "they" keep the cash I mean the police department that confiscated it. It pays for overtime, new vehicles, more officer positions, etc.. Same goes for any property when they find any drugs. So if they find weed in your band new pickup, they just scored a new pickup truck that they can auction off. The property confiscation is a civil matter and it's you who has to sue them to get it back. Good luck with that. The police departments are being motivated to find reasons to confiscate property. Once confiscated they don't even need to charge you criminally to keep the property.
Anyway, at some point in the future we'll look back at this time and shake our heads. It'll be a source of shame along the same lines as slavery and the treatment of Native Americans. I know many of you don't see it that way right now, but I'm sorry, you're wrong. The war on drugs is a tragedy. It’s not just harming druggies, it’s harming the way the people interact with the government and it is a force preventing the end of cultural segregation between whites and minorities.
The war on drugs has caused the cops to distrust society in general. That's the root of the problem.
I think that while that is certainly part of it, however the problem is widder than that. There is mistrust of the public towards the police is well. I think it comes from bad laws, false stories and being raised that way.
Basically it is a two way street.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
Cops are dumb. I think they don't do a good job filtering out bad candidates. We all know more idiot cops than good cops. It's a dumping ground for a lot of guys that can't hack the real world. Similar to guys that get into the Army. All respect to those that do it for the right reasons but a lot of people get into these types of jobs for the wrong reasons.
Having said that, I love when people get mouthy with cops and then get beat on. There is a time to fight for your rights. It's in a courtroom not on the streets. Go to England and mouth off to a Bobby and see how fast those clubs come out.
Having said that, I love when people get mouthy with cops and then get beat on. There is a time to fight for your rights. It's in a courtroom not on the streets. Go to England and mouth off to a Bobby and see how fast those clubs come out.
The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
The fact that you linked such a ****ty irrational website makes me want to do opposite of what it says.
Works for me.
Boondocksaint27
Active Member
In terms of my post I'm speaking about "hard" drugs like heroin, meth, cocaine/crack, and scrips, not marijuana...so what's the solution? Addicts don't just hurt themselves. They hurt their children, parents, close friends, and others. I don't mean hurt in the sense of emotional pain from a loved one using, though there is that too, I mean physical and sexual violence, theft, fraud, etc. Murders are committed on and over dope. Sexual assaults are committed while high on dope. Most thefts and robberies are committed to buy dope. Legalizing it won't make these things go away. Not to mention the monumental costs associated with what it would do to the health care system.
Just my opinion, but a lot of criminals (not regular people who made a mistake, but criminals) chose to be criminals. Legalizing hard dope won't make them just go away. They will just find a new hustle. Example: legalizing booze didn't destroy the mafia. Cartels wouldn't just cease to exist. They would just find a new drug or move on to a more violent means of making illegal money.
I've heard many countries are getting good results from decriminalization and investing in treatment, rather than prison.
If the dope is cheaper, you don't need to rob for it. If it's freely accessible, you don't need to kill for it. If it has recognized, licensed distribution chains, you need to engage in a turf war to sell it. No all of the secondary crime connected to dope is because it is illegal, but a lot of it is.
There's nothing stopping them from exploring those other means right now. They don't pursue them because those other means are not as profitable.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I am an honest law-abiding citizen who used to have a ton of respect for the police. I was out training with a guy and he ended up doing something stupid. Much to my surprise, he was also using a fake id. I had no idea...he was an employee of the company and I was in the passenger side as a trainee. I was handcuffed, searched, finally let go, but I was in a completely unfamiliar city, in an "iffy" residential area. They arrested him and impounded his car, leaving me without a ride. I was told to just to start walking. Cop wouldn't tell me which direction I could find a taxi stand or major business that would have been open (like a fast food place or motel...anything). I am now much more critical of police officers. I know some are very good. Unfortunately many are very, very bad, egotistical jerks like this one was.
Boondocksaint27
Active Member
One Brow: sources on countries decriminalizing successfully please. I have "heard" that too. I have also "heard" how that has been tried and failed. Decriminalizing won't stop the crimes committed under the influence of hard narcotics. Robberies and thefts won't go away either. You'll still have individuals stealing and robbing to get money to buy the drug legally. The crime won't change. Just the motive, in my opinion.
Edit: profitable? Do you know how many millions are spent on drug court/drug diversion and social programs centered on recovery? You can't just magically say treatment and counseling to a person and expect them to recover. Programs are in place for those who want them but usually an addict has to hit their bottom before they want to change.
Edit: profitable? Do you know how many millions are spent on drug court/drug diversion and social programs centered on recovery? You can't just magically say treatment and counseling to a person and expect them to recover. Programs are in place for those who want them but usually an addict has to hit their bottom before they want to change.
I fully allow and agree that the police themselves create a large part of their image problem. The officers you had sound like creeps.
So you're saying SOME people who use drugs also do other illegal things? Arrest them for the other illegal things they're doing.
https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...tion-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060.html
https://www.cato.org/publications/w...essons-creating-fair-successful-drug-policies
I'm curious where you have heard that decriminalization does not work. If the goal is to stop drug use completely, I agree it won't work, but neither has criminalization.
If the goal is to reduce drug use, improve public safety, and save money, decriminalization does all three.
I believe that, when I said "profitable", I was referring to the alternative sources of income for organized crime that you mentioned. If they were as profitable as the current sources, organized criminals would already be undertaking them.