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Ace Bailey Hype thread

the bolded. no it's literally not. 18 and 7 for a frosh in a top conference is objectively good. there has literally never been a freshman basketball player in the history of college basketball who put up at least 18 and 7 in a top 4 conference who didn't have a good freshman season.

THIS is important: that doesn't mean you have to love him or even like him as a prospect, but arguing that any freshman in a power conference who put up 18 and 7 played poorly is like arguing will hardy isn't the head coach of the utah jazz. in other words, i'm not policing how you or anybody evaluates a prospect - what i'm saying is that it makes zero sense and defies all logic to say that guy played poorly during that season.

It is completely arbitrary. For example, I was told I was overthinking it because I didn't like Tre's defense. But with Ace it's ok to mention defense. There is no universal thing that decides what counts as overthinking and what does not. I could very easily dismiss all of this context you put around his numbers as overthinking it because there is no rule. By adding color and context you are actually making an argument. Dismissing context and color as "overthinking" is not an argument. When you dismiss actual arguments due to overthinking, you are policing the way people think and deciding for them what matters. Some people care about 18 and 7. Some people care about more things, some people care about even less things. There are some people who dismissed Ace/Harper because "how can he and Harper be so good if their team sucked". That has less thinking involved than yourself, but it isn't necessarily more correct is it? Nobody gets to draw the line of what is considered overthinking and what is not.

Ace is not a prospect that passed my initial sniff test, but the harder I thought about it the more optimistic I got about him. If I thought less, I would have a different opinion than you. What you're really saying is that I must have thought the way you thought.
 
I saw an opinion in Finnish bball discussion that Ace's early glow up would make Lauri trade more likely, but I think it'd be counterintuitive. Wouldn't this be exactly what they want? Especially as there's no immediate cap relieve pressure to fit the main pieces from rookie deal guys under the cap.
 
I saw an opinion in Finnish bball discussion that Ace's early glow up would make Lauri trade more likely, but I think it'd be counterintuitive. Wouldn't this be exactly what they want? Especially as there's no immediate cap relieve pressure to fit the main pieces from rookie deal guys under the cap.
Tony and I traded messages on X and he said it makes it more likely we keep Lauri (he said it wasn't reporting and was speculation) because we have a guy who could be a number 1 in house. I think it depends on what offers come in, the other roster developments too - what if Taylor and Flip looks like studs or you draft Boozer?

I think the plan is likely to hold on to him until something knocks that off course - big trade offer, Lauri asks out, roster crunch with the young guys at 4... maybe a combo of all 3.
 
I saw an opinion in Finnish bball discussion that Ace's early glow up would make Lauri trade more likely, but I think it'd be counterintuitive. Wouldn't this be exactly what they want? Especially as there's no immediate cap relieve pressure to fit the main pieces from rookie deal guys under the cap.

It very much depends on Ace's development towards winning and what playstyle he develops. Ace has played well in the first two preseason games by... playing like Lauri Markkanen. He's a giant shooter who can score inside and out off screens right now. If he continues to develop along that path, then and Markkanen are a pretty awful fit together without an elite shot creating guard the Jazz don't have. If Ace develops more into like Paul George, then obviously he and Markkanen fit well, but how long will it take for Ace to become a high level passer and ball handler?

In general, the roster makes no sense which is fine for now, but obviously guys will have to be moved whenever the team actually tries to win. Markkanen, Filipowski, and Hendricks are all PFs and Ace is obviously headed to being a PF in 3-4 years. Some of these guys will be moved.
 
Idk how the FO feels, but I don't really like Ace's status is the driving factor behind a Lauri decisions. The driving factor in the Lauri decision is that he likely has a very small trade market and wouldn't yield much in a trade.
 
Idk how the FO feels, but I don't really like Ace's status is the driving factor behind a Lauri decisions. The driving factor in the Lauri decision is that he likely has a very small trade market and wouldn't yield much in a trade.

Yeah, I think the only way Ace influences if Lauri is traded is if the Jazz cannot get their young players enough shots/minutes with how much overlap all of their top prospects (other than Kessler) have with Lauri.
 
Idk how the FO feels, but I don't really like Ace's status is the driving factor behind a Lauri decisions. The driving factor in the Lauri decision is that he likely has a very small trade market and wouldn't yield much in a trade.
Probably one of a dozen factors.
 
It very much depends on Ace's development towards winning and what playstyle he develops. Ace has played well in the first two preseason games by... playing like Lauri Markkanen. He's a giant shooter who can score inside and out off screens right now. If he continues to develop along that path, then and Markkanen are a pretty awful fit together without an elite shot creating guard the Jazz don't have. If Ace develops more into like Paul George, then obviously he and Markkanen fit well, but how long will it take for Ace to become a high level passer and ball handler?

In general, the roster makes no sense which is fine for now, but obviously guys will have to be moved whenever the team actually tries to win. Markkanen, Filipowski, and Hendricks are all PFs and Ace is obviously headed to being a PF in 3-4 years. Some of these guys will be moved.
I think Ace is more of a 3 that can go up and play 4. I don't think too rigidly about 3 and 4 though. I think the issue if you run Lauri, Ace, Walker or Taylor as you main front court is that you will have some ball handling and passing deficiencies unless the guards are great at that. Right now we don't have those guards.

I think its a great problem to have if we do end up with the logjam. I wonder if getting a guy like AJ or Boozer would be a tipping point to settle on a Lauri trade.
 
Yeah, I think the only way Ace influences if Lauri is traded is if the Jazz cannot get their young players enough shots/minutes with how much overlap all of their top prospects (other than Kessler) have with Lauri.

I could see the FO being eager to move forward....So maybe if Ace looks great right away they start to put together a series of moves that lets them win faster. I don't love it myself, but I could see it.

Even if I was 100% sold on Ace I don't think it's necessarily the best idea to rush into things.
 
It is completely arbitrary. For example, I was told I was overthinking it because I didn't like Tre's defense. But with Ace it's ok to mention defense. There is no universal thing that decides what counts as overthinking and what does not. I could very easily dismiss all of this context you put around his numbers as overthinking it because there is no rule. By adding color and context you are actually making an argument. Dismissing context and color as "overthinking" is not an argument. When you dismiss actual arguments due to overthinking, you are policing the way people think and deciding for them what matters. Some people care about 18 and 7. Some people care about more things, some people care about even less things. There are some people who dismissed Ace/Harper because "how can he and Harper be so good if their team sucked". That has less thinking involved than yourself, but it isn't necessarily more correct is it? Nobody gets to draw the line of what is considered overthinking and what is not.

Ace is not a prospect that passed my initial sniff test, but the harder I thought about it the more optimistic I got about him. If I thought less, I would have a different opinion than you. What you're really saying is that I must have thought the way you thought.
Your overthinking this overthinking
 
I think Ace is more of a 3 that can go up and play 4. I don't think too rigidly about 3 and 4 though. I think the issue if you run Lauri, Ace, Walker or Taylor as you main front court is that you will have some ball handling and passing deficiencies unless the guards are great at that. Right now we don't have those guards.

I think its a great problem to have if we do end up with the logjam. I wonder if getting a guy like AJ or Boozer would be a tipping point to settle on a Lauri trade.

AJ fits OK as another 3/4. Boozer is way too giant and slow to play anything but PF though.
 
People are always talk about starting. I don't think Flip will ever be a regular starter because of poor defense due to his narrow wingspan. I think it would be fine for him to be the stabilizing influence off the bench in the paint. let's say that one of our undersized combo guards is coming off the bench at the 1, able to pass but it doesn't come naturally to them. Having Flip there to help with passing would be great, and he can get more time by doing both the 4 and 5. Also, with him being a second-round pick there won't be a massive pay cut when it becomes contract time like there might be with Cody if he is deemed a bench guy.
 
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