Allowing offensive rebounds

[franklin]

Fesenko DOESN'T block shots, and DOESN'T rebound. Jefferson, who has shown to be a pretty bad defensive rebounder this year, has a better defense rebounding rate than Fesenko. Jefferson also blocks shots at a better rate than Fesenko. I'll give you the fact that he alters shots, but half of those are because he's slapping the shooter on the wrist, or head. Basically, fouling weakly.

No, no, no... he rebounds all those balls he punches out of bounds because he can't open or close his hands fast enough. And, you have to add in all the rebound assists he gets because he's more prone to deflecting the ball than to actually securing it. You're just a hater, man. And blocking out and all other fundamentals are old phooey. Big time phooey. Pick and roll, back door, screening... that's all superstition.

 

[zbone]

Anyways, the main point remains. Did Malone box out or not? If he did, then how come he averaged that many rebounds?

Fesenko's career rebounds per 36 is 8.7. Only one less per 36 than Malone's 9.8.

If you just watch the game you'll understand that boxing out and rebounding are'nt mutually exclusive.

I haven't just watched. I played 4 at school so I kind of know how it happens sometimes. They are not mutually exclusive for sure but if you box out your man properly on each and every shot most likely you gonna lose some rebounds to your teammates that would be yours if you would hunt these balls down instead of boxing out. Most common pattern is midrange jumper short bouncing off the rim to the sidelines. If you box out these would be most likely picked up by guards.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Fesenko's career rebounds per 36 is 8.7. Only one less per 36 than Malone's 9.8.

Matter of pace and missed shots. And you're doing total rebounds, which includes offensive rebounds. Malone had a career defensive rebounding rate of 23.5, ranging from 19.6 to 27.2. What rebounding rate means is that Malone rebounded 23.5 of opponent's missed shots. Fesenko's career rate is currently 17.9, with his career high being this year at 19.6. Basically, Fesenko, in his best year, is rebounding at a rate equal to Malone's worst year ever rebounding. Malone never was below 24% in the nineties, save the one strike shortened year. In essence, the difference in their rebounding is that Malone rebounds every fourth miss, and Fesenko rebounds every fifth miss. That's significant.

I haven't just watched. I played 4 at school so I kind of know how it happens sometimes. They are not mutually exclusive for sure but if you box out your man properly on each and every shot most likely you gonna lose some rebounds to your teammates that would be yours if you would hunt these balls down instead of boxing out. Most common pattern is midrange jumper short bouncing off the rim to the sidelines. If you box out these would be most likely picked up by guards.

The Jazz DON'T rebound any better when he's in the game.

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

I haven't just watched. I played 4 at school so I kind of know how it happens sometimes. They are not mutually exclusive for sure but if you box out your man properly on each and every shot most likely you gonna lose some rebounds to your teammates that would be yours if you would hunt these balls down instead of boxing out. Most common pattern is midrange jumper short bouncing off the rim to the sidelines. If you box out these would be most likely picked up by guards.

are you saying that Fes boxes out so well, that all the rebounds end up with our guards?

 

[zbone]

are you saying that Fes boxes out so well, that all the rebounds end up with our guards?

No. I'm not talking about personalities in fact. I'm saying normally boxing out deflates big's rebounding stats. To be honest I don't see how this "this guys boxes out and this doesn't" can be shown with stats. I'm just sharing my own amateur experience playing at forward position. Nothing more. And yes, I see that Fes boxes out very well and it's obvious coaches did put it into his head because he does it as book says but in somewhat uncoordinated way though. That smoothness and higher efficiency, I believe, should come with consistent playing time.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Hmm...according to Zbone, boxing out deflates stats, but doesn't mean guards get any more boards. Those rebounds disappear when Fesenko boxes out then.

And, of course, it's not Fesenko's fault the Jazz don't rebound any different when he's in the game than when he's not.

 

[zbone]

Hmm...according to Zbone, boxing out deflates stats, but doesn't mean guards get any more boards. Those rebounds disappear when Fesenko boxes out then.

And, of course, it's not Fesenko's fault the Jazz don't rebound any different when he's in the game than when he's not.

There was some data posted in this thread. 2% or so difference pro Fesenko. Don't forget as well that Fes do 2 things too much to be efficient rebounder:
1. Fouls too much
2. Gets out of position to stop guard penetration

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Offensive rebounds are overrated.

Worst offensive rebounding team in the NBA = Boston
Best Defensive team in the NBA = Boston

It's all about transition defense baby.

 

[VINYLONE]

I'd like to see how Fes plays when he STARTS over the course of several games. Usually in the past when the Jazz were decimated with injuries and Fes was forced to start, he gave us some good minutes. The guy CAN play; we just need to figure out how to get his head in the game with consistancy! If he fails at this, I wouldn't re-sign him next season...
Yeah; too often our non-bigs just watch a ball go out of bounds instead of running to get it. That ain't gonna cut it, as the ref may have seen the play differently than the player...
All those missed FT's came back to bite us too; gotta rebound and hit FT's when on the road, dang it!!!!

I think Fes is a big body, obviously. He definitely affects the game in our favor when he is out there, but for the most part, the guy is a ****ing idiot.

 

[carolinajazz]

Offensive rebounds are overrated.

Worst offensive rebounding team in the NBA = Boston
Best Defensive team in the NBA = Boston

It's all about transition defense baby.

.....agree! Boston doesn't need to get offensive rebounds....they shoot a high percentage and work for good shots! Teams that force alot of shots need offensive rebounds. Teams that box out well don't give up many offensive rebounds.