ElRoach0; explaining and defending his beliefs(read "The Official 'Ask a Mormon' Thread" first

[PearlWatson]

I am enjoying Roach being the Devil's advocate.

 

[babe]

I am enjoying Roach being the Devil's advocate.

Precisely.

 

[babe]

So within deep Mormon philosophical thought. . . . there have been some comments on the subject of Lucifer's role in the Plan of Salvation.

Seems like a necessary part of the plan for a mortal probation, this having someone to oppose us. Can't play basketball without an opponent.

And in regard to the fate of Lucifer at the end of the game. . . . well, some have said broken clay or even broken intelligences might be just thrown back into the fire, so to speak. . . . run through another Big Bang or sunk into a black hole or whatever it takes to reduce the matter to it's primeval elements. . . . . perhaps to be reborn someday to try again I suppose.

Can't see just going on being that miserable for forever.

 

[Harambe]

Sure, I'm with you on people and even Satan to be able to find forgiveness, the key is if he wants it. If I can't use that bold section about him planning on doing it again, they you should not be able to say he feels he has hit rock bottom and accepts what he has done and would like to change it.

I do agree with your point though that all, even him, have a chance to change and be forgiven.

One thing I keep in mind is that to God time is basically meaningless, so our idea that he is cast off forever could be similar to it taking a 7 days to create the world. In my opinion Satan is still throwing a fit for not getting what he wanted. I don't see it as impossible that he could change and I don't see it impossible that God could forgive him either. I think that us on this earth misunderstand things and read into things.... it could be "forever" having to do with this earth. Not 100% sure. Either way it's up to us to change and come to God freely, it's also up to Satan and anyone else. I think God forgives us all and gives us more chances than he gets credit for. just my opinion.

God and Christ are compared to light in the scriptures. Satan and others that reject the light will be in darkness. That is their own choice, and to me that means they will be away from God and Christ so they have no light. I don't see it as much as them being "cast off" as the wording is, as I see it as them choosing to walk away from the light. again, my opinion.

It's possible he hasn't hit rock bottom. If he hasn't, I'm not sure what is. It just seems to me it's a win/win situation to end these shenanigans; Lu gets back in good with us, God doesn't have to worry about his prodigal son anymore. We continue the war, and all that's out there is bloodshed and heartache on both sides.

I can not see it possible that he would want to continue to live cast away from heaven. Why would he choose that path? Why would anyone? There are things that I don't understand, and I'm open to it being both ways. Just seems to me the guy would want to fall in line after being punished for so long.

I'm not so sure he hasn't hit rock bottom. Pessimist thought indeed, but the story of Job seems to be a form of counseling. Second session is tempting Jesus those 40 days. That's where I think we're at.

Go to any Christian organized religion, and they'll tell you to take up your sword against the devil.. and do not question a thing. If we teach that, how can healing ever be possible?

Seems like a necessary part of the plan for a mortal probation, this having someone to oppose us. Can't play basketball without an opponent.

And in regard to the fate of Lucifer at the end of the game. . . . well, some have said broken clay or even broken intelligences might be just thrown back into the fire, so to speak. . . . run through another Big Bang or sunk into a black hole or whatever it takes to reduce the matter to it's primeval elements. . . . . perhaps to be reborn someday to try again I suppose.

When you look at it like that, maybe Lu hit rock bottom before he was cast out, and was just taking on the mantle of Satan so we could have a plan. This makes more sense than most would care to think about.

 

[Stoked]

It's possible he hasn't hit rock bottom. If he hasn't, I'm not sure what is. It just seems to me it's a win/win situation to end these shenanigans; Lu gets back in good with us, God doesn't have to worry about his prodigal son anymore. We continue the war, and all that's out there is bloodshed and heartache on both sides.

I can not see it possible that he would want to continue to live cast away from heaven. Why would he choose that path? Why would anyone? There are things that I don't understand, and I'm open to it being both ways. Just seems to me the guy would want to fall in line after being punished for so long.

I'm not so sure he hasn't hit rock bottom. Pessimist thought indeed, but the story of Job seems to be a form of counseling. Second session is tempting Jesus those 40 days. That's where I think we're at.

Go to any Christian organized religion, and they'll tell you to take up your sword against the devil.. and do not question a thing. If we teach that, how can healing ever be possible?


When you look at it like that, maybe Lu hit rock bottom before he was cast out, and was just taking on the mantle of Satan so we could have a plan. This makes more sense than most would care to think about.

This uses the premise that Lu and his followers have any interest in peace. I truly believe they do not.

But let us suppose they did. I am sure that God and Lu would work something out and us here on Earth would find out about it after the fact. Then it is an issue of take up your swords against what? There is no enemy to fight in this scenario since the forces tempting us are simply gone.

 

[nightmare3983]

Not really how it works...

We use our entire brain. Not at the same time, of course. You wouldn't want to be flailing your arms, singing, and taking piss while you're trying to relax and read a book. But none of the brain is wasted.

As for elasticity, brain's capacity and how it utilizes that capacity improves with knowledge and training. And this continues throughout your life. The common statement that your brain stop developing in your twenties is also a myth. And that's obvious, as we continue to experience "growth" throughout our lives.

Is it true that brain development slows down at around that age?

 

[Siro]

Is it true that brain development slows down at around that age?

The answer to this question is a bit complicated. The brain follows a development path where certain parts increase in volume and neural density as a juvenile human becomes fully grown (along with the rest of the body). So in a way, yes. A child will develop faster than an adult because his/her brain is still growing, literally. That process stops as the brain reaches the adult state sometime in the early twenties. After that, we enter the plasticity period. And that lasts throughout your life.

But, the brain grows in response to new stimuli. So if you encounter a new idea, and you expend effort analyzing it and trying to understand it, then the brain will grow new neurons and find better uses for existing infrastructure. The same happens if you're forced to radically alter your lifestyle. So an adventurous person with a love for knowledge will continue to grow at a high rate for as long as they keep pursuing self-betterment. But most people don't. As the brain develops an adult worldview, people pretty much look for stability. If you're a socialist at 25, you're likely to be a socialist at 45. It just takes a lot of work to rebuild an established worldview. Similarly, people look for stability in their careers, homes, and other aspects of their lives. So in practice, you do slow down as you get older. But from a physical point of view, you really don't.

 

[nightmare3983]

The answer to this question is a bit complicated. The brain follows a development path where certain parts increase in volume and neural density as a juvenile human becomes fully grown (along with the rest of the body). So in a way, yes. A child will develop faster than an adult because his/her brain is still growing, literally. That process stops as the brain reaches the adult state sometime in the early twenties. After that, we enter the plasticity period. And that lasts throughout your life.

But, the brain grows in response to new stimuli. So if you encounter a new idea, and you expend effort analyzing it and trying to understand it, then the brain will grow new neurons and find better uses for existing infrastructure. The same happens if you're forced to radically alter your lifestyle. So an adventurous person with a love for knowledge will continue to grow at a high rate for as long as they keep pursuing self-betterment. But most people don't. As the brain develops an adult worldview, people pretty much look for stability. If you're a socialist at 25, you're likely to be a socialist at 45. It just takes a lot of work to rebuild an established worldview. Similarly, people look for stability in their careers, homes, and other aspects of their lives. So in practice, you do slow down as you get older. But from a physical point of view, you really don't.

Thanks for the good response.

 

[Harambe]

This uses the premise that Lu and his followers have any interest in peace. I truly believe they do not.

But let us suppose they did. I am sure that God and Lu would work something out and us here on Earth would find out about it after the fact. Then it is an issue of take up your swords against what? There is no enemy to fight in this scenario since the forces tempting us are simply gone.

At that point it's an issue of putting down your swords, not taking them up. And that, would be impossible for many Christians to deal with.

 

[Stoked]

At that point it's an issue of putting down your swords, not taking them up. And that, would be impossible for many Christians to deal with.

I can see that but if they continue to hold their swords than so what? Lu and his have moved on and are OK with God.

 

[Scat]

At that point it's an issue of putting down your swords, not taking them up. And that, would be impossible for many Christians to deal with.

Damn... I must have missed this lesson in Sunday School. I don't even own a sword let alone taking it up.

 

[Stoked]

Damn... I must have missed this lesson in Sunday School. I don't even own a sword let alone taking it up.

And why do you think they gave that lesson on a SUnday when you were absent?

 

[Harambe]

I can see that but if they continue to hold their swords than so what? Lu and his have moved on and are OK with God.

They're holding their swords at Lu and his. If there is a grand re-organization, there are those that won't accept that and consequently use those swords anyways.

I'm not saying disarm, I'm saying be smart if you're going to use it. Not rush to use it.

 

[PearlWatson]

I don't even own a sword let alone taking it up.

lolz

 

[Stoked]

They're holding their swords at Lu and his. If there is a grand re-organization, there are those that won't accept that and consequently use those swords anyways.

I'm not saying disarm, I'm saying be smart if you're going to use it. Not rush to use it.

I see that. But by the time they ever get a chance to actual do anything other then resist temptation they are with God telling them its over and the family is whole.