Jazz 3 point shooting

[franklin]

Last season, the Jazz ranked 3rd in-the-paint and 24th out-of-paint. In-the-paint should only get better with AJ and Sap in their prime, Favors and Kanter improving, the addition of a competent SF, and better outside shooting. Also, believe it or not, the Jazz ranked an impressive 4th in FTA's per game. So much for the no FTA fallacy.

The Jazz ranked 27 (%), 28 (makes), & 29th (attempts) in 3 point categories. Aside from fouls (2nd) this is the obvious black hole that needs to be addressed. Marvin is an obvious upgrade over The Three Amigo's, and Mo over Harris. Hayward and Burks are still suspect at shooting from the 2 though. My question is if these additions are enough to plug the drain or if more needs to be done?

(obligatory trade Kwame Kancer for a stud wing and let this team ride for 4 years)

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Obviously, it's not that simple but plug in our current core's three point percentage's from last year and what would it be? Where would that rank us?

 

[Stoked]

I think it is an improvement but I am not sure it is enough to "plug the drain". I think it slows the flow though. Truly plugging the drain would be Burks and Hayward stepping up that part of their game in a significant way in addition to Williams and Williams.

 

[franklin]

Hayward actually shot a respectable regular season %. We're also way too optimistic on Marvin. He's as eradic as they come and has yet to prove outside consistency. I don't know how much of that is on ATL though.

Considering no depth, I would be happy to get around 19 attempts per--which is middle of the pack. Up the % to a reasonable 35 and that could be good for 6-8 more points per game. That would be a ridiculous offense if it meshed well (no jacking threes, making defenses guard all three wings).

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

So I just did the math based on 11 guys who were on our team last year and should be this year: Mo, Tinsley, Watson, Hayward, Burks, Williams, Carroll, Evans, Millsap, Jefferson, Kanter...

Again, not that what they shot last year is some end all, but their collective three point shooting from last year comes out to 34.73%...256-737. That would propel us from 27th in the league to 13th. Interesting. I worry most about Marvin but I also think Hayward could be much better so it could even out. Murphy is also a decent three point shooter and shouldn't be on the court too much or enough to really skew that number downward very much at all.

Again, very interesting.

 

[Growlor]

is it reasonable to consider packaging Kanter and either Hayward or Burks for a perennial all-star wing?
Who would make the list of game changers?

I think it is odd we are discussing paying a 6th man $10-$14 mill but have no stand out starters. I am talking about regular all-stars, without which we will never be a contender.

 

[nightmare3983]

So I just did the math based on 11 guys who were on our team last year and should be this year: Mo, Tinsley, Watson, Hayward, Burks, Williams, Carroll, Evans, Millsap, Jefferson, Kanter...

Again, not that what they shot last year is some end all, but their collective three point shooting from last year comes out to 34.73%...256-737. That would propel us from 27th in the league to 13th. Interesting. I worry most about Marvin but I also think Hayward could be much better so it could even out. Murphy is also a decent three point shooter and shouldn't be on the court too much or enough to really skew that number downward very much at all.

Again, very interesting.

Nice work. I did the same thing with the exception of leaving out Jefferson, Kanter and Evans. Since those guys didn't take many 3's I got 34.88%. There really isn't any good reason why the Jazz shouldn't at least be around the league average in 3P%.

 

[Dr. Jones]

How much of our 3pt shooting woes can be attributed to running an offense doesn't call for stretching the floor (shooting 3's) as much as other teams?

I guess my real question is whether you guys think you'd see more 3pt play-calling if there were, in fact, an upgrade in shooters .. as a coaching philosophy.

 

[franklin]

is it reasonable to consider packaging Kanter and either Hayward or Burks for a perennial all-star wing?
Who would make the list of game changers?

I think it is odd we are discussing paying a 6th man $10-$14 mill but have no stand out starters. I am talking about regular all-stars, without which we will never be a contender.

I wish (Minus Hayward). I'd throw in the GSW pick and a future 1st if it meant landing a perennial All-Star.

^^Harden Harden Harden Harden Harden Harden Harden Harden Harden^^

 

[Growlor]

For Kanter, Burks and GS pick could we get Harden? Would we want him for that price?

 

[Dr. Jones]

For Kanter, Burks and GS pick could we get Harden? Would we want him for that price?

I would.

 

[franklin]

How much of our 3pt shooting woes can be attributed to running an offense doesn't call for stretching the floor (shooting 3's) as much as other teams?

I guess my real question is whether you guys think you'd see more 3pt play-calling if there were, in fact, an upgrade in shooters .. as a coaching philosophy.

About .005%.

Do you realize how easy it is to run defensive schemes against teams with horrid outside shooting? Popavich did. (oh wait, that was all on Jefferson triple teams and had nothing to do with the best coach ever)

NBA teams simply aren't close to last in every three point category due to coaching incompetence.

 

[orangello]

So I just did the math based on 11 guys who were on our team last year and should be this year: Mo, Tinsley, Watson, Hayward, Burks, Williams, Carroll, Evans, Millsap, Jefferson, Kanter...

Again, not that what they shot last year is some end all, but their collective three point shooting from last year comes out to 34.73%...256-737. That would propel us from 27th in the league to 13th. Interesting. I worry most about Marvin but I also think Hayward could be much better so it could even out. Murphy is also a decent three point shooter and shouldn't be on the court too much or enough to really skew that number downward very much at all.

Again, very interesting.

Good work Wes. Seeing these numbers really does help put things into perspective. That number could really help the Jazz. Of course, the offense was not the real problem, it was the defense. Hopefully that changes too (personnel wise that is).

 

[Dr. Jones]

About .005%.

Do you realize how easy it is to run defensive schemes against teams with horrid outside shooting? Popavich did. (oh wait, that was all on Jefferson triple teams and had nothing to do with the best coach ever)

NBA teams simply aren't close to last in every three point category due to coaching incompetence.

I wasn't suggesting coaching incompetence. Some coaches embrace the 3pt shot more than others. My question, as stated, was do you think the Jazz/Ty would get behind the 3pt shot .. I ask because Sloan didn't seem too willing. Innocent question.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

How much of our 3pt shooting woes can be attributed to running an offense doesn't call for stretching the floor (shooting 3's) as much as other teams?

I guess my real question is whether you guys think you'd see more 3pt play-calling if there were, in fact, an upgrade in shooters .. as a coaching philosophy.

I'm not really sure...I don't really know enough about basketball and playcalling to know how that works...my uneducated perception is that our three point shooting would simply improve, not with more play-calling, but with better, crisper, sharper, quicker passing out of the double teams and the help, closing defender on the perimeter. When I watch the Spurs, I see quick, sharp passes. In a matter of three seconds, four or five guys touch the ball in a seamless motion of beauty and art.

 

[franklin]

I wasn't suggesting coaching incompetence. Some coaches embrace the 3pt shot more than others. My question, as stated, was do you think the Jazz/Ty would get behind the 3pt shot .. I ask because Sloan didn't seem too willing. Innocent question.

Sorry, I must have worded that offensively.

This is a moot point to me since the mere presence of outside shooting improves everything from post ply to screens and cuts to more advanced flex plays that have completely disappeared the last few years. As a fan, I'd love to see the Jazz shoot 40% on 22 attempts like the Spurs did last season. But I also loved the efficiency from Sloan's prime that had some of the most efficient 3 pt teams shooting 10 per game.

 

[green]

Sloan had no problem with the three point shot. Look at when the Jazz made their finals runs. He had a lot of outside shooters (Hornacek, Russell, Stockton, etc). The Jazz shot 37% from three in their two finals runs, and took 902 three point attempts in 1996-1997.

Sloan's big this is/was, why take a three, is you can set a screen, make a cut and get a layup, and don't take a three if you can't hit it (remember all those "making guard" comments. He never said he didn't like three's, he just said he didn't like taking threes if you can't consistently make them).

We will never be a good three point % team until Al learns to pass out of the block, or he is traded.

 

[nightmare3983]

I wasn't suggesting coaching incompetence. Some coaches embrace the 3pt shot more than others. My question, as stated, was do you think the Jazz/Ty would get behind the 3pt shot .. I ask because Sloan didn't seem too willing. Innocent question.

I honestly think that would determine how good of a coach Corbin is. It's a give-and-take between asking more from your players while also making adjustments as a coach that suit your personnel. I would hope a young coach like Corbin is willing to run more of the offense to get 3 pointers with this group of players.

 

[green]

That being said, I would think a title contending team would be top 5 in "in the paint" stats, and right around 10th in "3 pt" stats.

 

[orangello]

For Kanter, Burks and GS pick could we get Harden? Would we want him for that price?

I have not given up on Burks and Kanter yet. I want to see them through January to see if they are improving or not. Also, regardless I would ask that PJ3 be in the deal if we are giving up a big.