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Let's discuss QS's offense

It will improve when the team is fully healthy and they are hitting the open shots they are getting.

Question I have is will it improve enough? I am not able to answer that.
 
Perhaps this may be the fair criticism of QS. I have not watched/studied enough to give a good opinion. Here is a basketball reference page that compares ortg by year. https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/

According to this Sloan>Corbin>QS

I feel like QS will reverse that trend possibly this year, but that's not what the numbers say so far. It's worth noting Corbins ortg dropped each year, but then again, so did the talent he had.

This would be a great thread for Frank to post up some gifs.
 
We'll get a healthy example of Jazz offense compared to San Antonio's this week,San Antonio passes lead to baskets. Their not trying to milk the clock.
I'll continue to believe having a young team with young legs in a high elevation should not be one the slowest in the NBA.
Right now Spurs are averaging just under 109 ppg and Jazz like last year have dropped down to just under 92 ppg .How does this emulate San Antonio's offense?
I think Snyder like a lot of ex coaches has tryed fitting the team he's coaching to his way and that doesn't fit the teams experience or young legs.
 
If folks remember during the first 20 or so games of his 2014-15, QS had the team running at a faster tempo. He brought the pace to a grinding halt when it became readily obvious he didn't have the personnel to compete offensively with most of the other teams in the league. Coupled with dumping Kanter and the emergence of Rudy, The Jazz won some games and it's been that way ever since.

Perhaps it's time to put the foot back on the gas and try to put some pressure on the opposing team's D for once.
 
The motion and passes seemingly have less purpose than the motion offenses of San Antonio and Atlanta. It almost looks like the awful college offenses that pass around the top of the key for 30 seconds before taking a shot at the last second.

I'd just like more purpose... I understand it takes time though and offensive talent. We need guys to be decisive and look to threaten the defense instead of just pass around.
 
Severly limited by our players not being very good or decisive with passes in general and passing up a lot of open looks they do get.

Also takes forever to get into, so frequently when we have to reset there's not enough time on the shot clock for players to do anything besides try to force something.
 
For the offense to work at its best the players need to gracefully run out the shotclock, and we certainly haven't been seeing that thru 3 games.

There's many culprits, I'd particularly blame Boris Diaw for using up the clock and rushing something ugly, his fingerprints have been all over the worst stretches of play. Trey Lyles has been guilty, and IMO Joe Johnson has been stopping the ball as well..

I wonder if they've gone overboard on the positional flexibility/ball-handlers and have too many chefs spoiling the soup..

George Hill I think is one of the few that's performed well in this aspect, if not for him the Lakers games turns into a complete panicked frenzy on offense IMO. Joe Ingles in his limited minutes certainly looks in sync. Rodney Hood is kinda in rhythm with the offense so far, but he's not exactly in rhythm scoring, making only about 35% of his FG's.

Exum to me looks decisive and like an extension of the coach on the floor, except in the moments where he's been out there with Diaw and he's second guessing himself on if he should defer to Boris..

The offense has produced a good number of very clean looks from 3, and many of them have been clanked. Which seems reminiscent of last years start (iirc).
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The motion and passes seemingly have less purpose than the motion offenses of San Antonio and Atlanta. It almost looks like the awful college offenses that pass around the top of the key for 30 seconds before taking a shot at the last second.

I'd just like more purpose... I understand it takes time though and offensive talent. We need guys to be decisive and look to threaten the defense instead of just pass around.
Click to expand...

For starters, the first pass of the offense is to a big man at the top of the key; the big man never looks to shoot or to pass to someone who will, so the defense uses the time to get set. That's 5 seconds off the clock before we even think of shooting the ball.
 
This offense needs a Burks type player. Someone to breakdown the defense and get into the paint at will.

I wish we had a player like that.
 
Ellipse said:
For starters, the first pass of the offense is to a big man at the top of the key; the big man never looks to shoot or to pass to someone who will, so the defense uses the time to get set. That's 5 seconds off the clock before we even think of shooting the ball.
Click to expand...
nailed it
 
Ellipse said:
For starters, the first pass of the offense is to a big man at the top of the key; the big man never looks to shoot or to pass to someone who will, so the defense uses the time to get set. That's 5 seconds off the clock before we even think of shooting the ball.
Click to expand...


Yep - this is a Sloan leftover that doesn't work that well when you don't have a HOF or AS PG who can create something out of nothing when the first set doesn't work.
 
Ellipse said:
For starters, the first pass of the offense is to a big man at the top of the key; the big man never looks to shoot or to pass to someone who will, so the defense uses the time to get set. That's 5 seconds off the clock before we even think of shooting the ball.
Click to expand...

vegas said:
nailed it
Click to expand...

candrew said:
Yep - this is a Sloan leftover that doesn't work that well when you don't have a HOF or AS PG who can create something out of nothing when the first set doesn't work.
Click to expand...

Gotta disagree with this, the problem with the offense is whats happening in the last 10-15 seconds of the clock not the first 9.

I'd say that wrinkle is essential to the teams identity and it's one of the reasons teams don't like to play the Jazz, it's in-part how they sludge up the game and get the action to go at their pace, and their quite good at it. It decreases the posessions which amplifies the importance of grabbing boards and forcing to's/not turning the ball over, which is an advantage they hope to hold vs most teams..

The Lakers werre certainly all sorts of frustrated by the time that 4th quarter rolled around, and playing good defense and running the shotclock out for the first 3 quarters will do that to teams. add in some effective 3pt shooting and playrs getting to the FT line and you've got the ingredients for a 50 win team.
 
PG_AB said:
Gotta disagree with this, the problem with the offense is whats happening in the last 10-15 seconds of the clock not the first 9.

I'd say that wrinkle is essential to the teams identity and it's one of the reasons teams don't like to play the Jazz, it's in-part how they sludge up the game and get the action to go at their pace, and their quite good at it. It decreases the posessions which amplifies the importance of grabbing boards and forcing to's/not turning the ball over, which is an advantage they hope to hold vs most teams..

The Lakers werre certainly all sorts of frustrated by the time that 4th quarter rolled around, and playing good defense and running the shotclock out for the first 3 quarters will do that to teams. add in some effective 3pt shooting and playrs getting to the FT line and you've got the ingredients for a 50 win team.
Click to expand...

Could it be that the issues in the last 10 seconds of the clock are in part a problem from taking to much time to actually get into a meaningful offensive position in a timely fashion?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The motion and passes seemingly have less purpose than the motion offenses of San Antonio and Atlanta. It almost looks like the awful college offenses that pass around the top of the key for 30 seconds before taking a shot at the last second.

I'd just like more purpose... I understand it takes time though and offensive talent. We need guys to be decisive and look to threaten the defense instead of just pass around.
Click to expand...

Yep, for a team that is supposed to rally around the concept of "force", it looks pretty "unforceful" a lot of the time.

The preseason games I saw looked a little different. We'd take advantage of an early PnR opportunity right off the break, or the initial ball handler would get below the free throw line and kick it out for some passes around the perimeter. Etc. The regular season games seemed to have regressed. Oh, and we aren't hitting shots.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Could it be that the issues in the last 10 seconds of the clock are in part a problem from taking to much time to actually get into a meaningful offensive position in a timely fashion?
Click to expand...

I think so. A good offense's initial action should meaningfully dent/erode the wall(s) the defense has erected. When our offense fails to do this, then it degrades into an iso possession (because it's based on spacing rather than weak-side action). I'm not thrilled about this, but, when healthy, it may be effective enough with our group to win a lot of games (thanks to the defense, though).
 
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vegas said:
nailed it
Click to expand...
Agreed. Great post.
Giving the ball to gobert at the top of the three point line is the dumbest thing ever.

I will watch tonight and see how often Aldridge or gasol touch the ball outside the three point line. (And they even have that three point range yet I still bet Gobert has the ball in his hands outside the three point line more than gasol or aldridge)
 
Ellipse said:
For starters, the first pass of the offense is to a big man at the top of the key; the big man never looks to shoot or to pass to someone who will, so the defense uses the time to get set. That's 5 seconds off the clock before we even think of shooting the ball.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I see this on a ton of possessions. Kind of weird that Snyder was labeled as an offensive mastermind when he was hired, but he turned around the defense and the offense is kind of meh. He's the Dante Exum of coaches lol. Pre-draft he was a question mark at best on defense and an offensive whiz and is the opposite so far in the NBA.

Side note, Bovada has Snyder as the 4th most likely coach to be fired for some reason.
https://twitter.com/adijoseph/status/793483338019442688
 
He can draw all the Xs and Os he wants, but at some point one of our players still has to make an aggressive move and beat a defender in the lane. Hill has been in charge of that for the most part, but he's not the fastest player anymore I don't think we can count on him as a first option. Joe Johnson is old. Favors has been on limited minutes. Burks and Hayward....gone. Exum and Lyles have been in their shells early on. It's a recipe for disaster. Hayward will help a ton. This isn't a surprise last year the offense was dreadful without him against 1st units.
 
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