Nurse Suspected of Killing Up to 46 Kids Set to Leave Prison

[Gameface]

Is that on a per capita basis or in some other way normalized? Is it possible that the reason it appears racially lop-sided is because it really is racially lop-sided? No one ever talks about that part because they don't want to be labeled a "racialist", but it has to be considered. Either it is a vast conspiracy against people of color, or maybe there is just a bigger problem among that community than others. Are we even allowed to consider that possibility or do we instantly get demonized for even hinting at it?

I know there is way more behind it than just race, and that there are way more issues that tie into this. It is like a giant jenga puzzle. You can't pull one stick and say "here is the whole truth" while the rest collapses around you. But it is still a valid point to consider.

Use is pretty consistent regardless of skin color. Minorities do not use drugs significantly more than whites.

I think part of it is the mentality of police departments in poor minority communities vs white suburban communities. As a teen I was in a car that got pulled over and the officers found pot on one of my friends. We were in the Olympus Hills area. We were let go without so much as a ticket. Had we been charged with the crimes we had committed it would have led to years of involvement in the system and living under a set of standards very different than that which people outside the system have to live.

The sentencing discrepancy is harder to explain but I guess in part it probably has to do with what sort of legal help you can afford.

But the numbers are staggering. It's not a small issue. It's a really really big issue. I was first made aware of what was up listening to NPR where a woman who studied the issues called it modern day Jim Crow. Seemed a little over dramatic to me, but then I looked into it and ultimately is does set up a divided society in which some people are held to a stricter legal standard than the other part of society. Not only is it reflected in prison population, but the parole/probation system along with the employability of those who have records (when white people who did the exact same thing never faced prosecution in the first place) creates a very unequal society. This unequal society sends the signal to poor minorities that this is not their society and it has nothing to offer them, thus continuing the cycle.

The drug war is a tragedy and it needs to end as soon as possible. It is not protecting us from the evils of drugs. It has completely failed on that front. The drug war itself is causing more harm than legalized drugs ever could.

 

[♪alt13]

^This. All of this^

 

[green]

And why is that? I'm in the dark here. Explain.

To get the uniformed to vote for them.

 

[green]

Use is pretty consistent regardless of skin color. Minorities do not use drugs significantly more than whites.

I think part of it is the mentality of police departments in poor minority communities vs white suburban communities. As a teen I was in a car that got pulled over and the officers found pot on one of my friends. We were in the Olympus Hills area. We were let go without so much as a ticket. Had we been charged with the crimes we had committed it would have led to years of involvement in the system and living under a set of standards very different than that which people outside the system have to live.

The sentencing discrepancy is harder to explain but I guess in part it probably has to do with what sort of legal help you can afford.

But the numbers are staggering. It's not a small issue. It's a really really big issue. I was first made aware of what was up listening to NPR where a woman who studied the issues called it modern day Jim Crow. Seemed a little over dramatic to me, but then I looked into it and ultimately is does set up a divided society in which some people are held to a stricter legal standard than the other part of society. Not only is it reflected in prison population, but the parole/probation system along with the employability of those who have records (when white people who did the exact same thing never faced prosecution in the first place) creates a very unequal society. This unequal society sends the signal to poor minorities that this is not their society and it has nothing to offer them, thus continuing the cycle.

The drug war is a tragedy and it needs to end as soon as possible. It is not protecting us from the evils of drugs. It has completely failed on that front. The drug war itself is causing more harm than legalized drugs ever could.

Thanks for this. I don't know a lot about all of this, but I'd be willing to bet the truth is somewhere in between what you and Loggrad posted. Would be very interested to learn more about this. Any links I can read?

 

[LogGrad98]

What were the children in prison for? Sad that she killed them when they were about to get out.

They were guilty of being the wrong race, and/or religion.

 

[♪alt13]

Thanks for this. I don't know a lot about all of this, but I'd be willing to bet the truth is somewhere in between what you and Loggrad posted. Would be very interested to learn more about this. Any links I can read?

https://www.drugpolicy.org/race-and-drug-war
https://urbanhabitat.org/20years/alexander

 

[♪alt13]

Is that on a per capita basis or in some other way normalized? Is it possible that the reason it appears racially lop-sided is because it really is racially lop-sided? No one ever talks about that part because they don't want to be labeled a "racialist", but it has to be considered. Either it is a vast conspiracy against people of color, or maybe there is just a bigger problem among that community than others. Are we even allowed to consider that possibility or do we instantly get demonized for even hinting at it?

I know there is way more behind it than just race, and that there are way more issues that tie into this. It is like a giant jenga puzzle. You can't pull one stick and say "here is the whole truth" while the rest collapses around you. But it is still a valid point to consider.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world"
-Mahatma Ghandi

If we live by this axiom.

Log you are a middle aged white guy from Reno with a good job.(I think) I doubt you can effect black culture, but middle aged white guys with good jobs are a key voting block. Maybe there is something with our policies that while isn't the whole story is making it worse. What if you wrote your representative and explained that maybe we should ease up on these drug offenses especially the young ones. Maybe we could prevent some of them from becoming career criminals and start to break the cycle.

 

[LogGrad98]

"Be the change you wish to see in the world"
-Mahatma Ghandi

If we live by this axiom.

Log you are a middle aged white guy from Reno with a good job.(I think) I doubt you can effect black culture, but middle aged white guys with good jobs are a key voting block. Maybe there is something with our policies that while isn't the whole story is making it worse. What if you wrote your representative and explained that maybe we should ease up on these drug offenses especially the young ones. Maybe we could prevent some of them from becoming career criminals and start to break the cycle.

I don't disagree one bit with this. Of course we have to start with ourselves to affect real change. My question was more along the lines of potential illusory correlation and the notion that everything in the "system" is set up to discriminate against anyone other than whites. I am not saying there are not discrepancies and it definitely looks that way, but playing devil's advocate is it possible that the arrests and sentencing are not unfairly and purposely lop-sided but rather truly a larger issue among that demographic? GF answered it well with the comment about usage stats being roughly even across races (the only studies I could find still showed a larger proportion of blacks as users than whites, but there weren't big gaps, it was pretty close), yet the arrest and prosecution stats along with that are pretty huge gaps.

But so often it seems this kind of thing is used as an excuse, another way to absolve someone, individual or group, of responsibility for their actions, which is the single most damaging issue in our society today imo. We need the system to be more fair about it, and bring the proportions back in line, but it doesn't mean that we should swing the other way either and blame "the village" for the poor choices and actions of every child.

 

[♪alt13]

I don't disagree one bit with this. Of course we have to start with ourselves to affect real change. My question was more along the lines of potential illusory correlation and the notion that everything in the "system" is set up to discriminate against anyone other than whites. I am not saying there are not discrepancies and it definitely looks that way, but playing devil's advocate is it possible that the arrests and sentencing are not unfairly and purposely lop-sided but rather truly a larger issue among that demographic? GF answered it well with the comment about usage stats being roughly even across races (the only studies I could find still showed a larger proportion of blacks as users than whites, but there weren't big gaps, it was pretty close), yet the arrest and prosecution stats along with that are pretty huge gaps.

But so often it seems this kind of thing is used as an excuse, another way to absolve someone, individual or group, of responsibility for their actions, which is the single most damaging issue in our society today imo. We need the system to be more fair about it, and bring the proportions back in line, but it doesn't mean that we should swing the other way either and blame "the village" for the poor choices and actions of every child.

I agree with that. I think it would be great if we could remove the excuse so that people were forced to take responsibility.

 

[One Brow]

My question was more along the lines of potential illusory correlation and the notion that everything in the "system" is set up to discriminate against anyone other than whites.

1) If the effect is highly discriminatory, does the intent matter to the point where we keep the discriminatory system in place?
2) Most racism is deliberately setting up different structures or outcomes, but in the small judgments that can made at various steps, by people honestly trying to do the right thing, but failing to see how their perception is unfair. These small differences in treatment have an additive effect over many steps, resulting in a grossly unfair system.

But so often it seems this kind of thing is used as an excuse, another way to absolve someone, individual or group, of responsibility for their actions, which is the single most damaging issue in our society today imo. We need the system to be more fair about it, and bring the proportions back in line, but it doesn't mean that we should swing the other way either and blame "the village" for the poor choices and actions of every child.

If you set a hurdle in a race to be 2 inches high, everyone can jump it. If you set it seven feet high, only elite athletes can jump it, and not while actually running in a race. I get tired of hearing people complain about the other groups not being responsible for jumping the high hurdles, because they can jump their lower hurdles so easily.

 

[One Brow]

I agree with that. I think it would be great if we could remove the excuse so that people were forced to take responsibility.

It would be great if the people who played the game on Easy mode acknowledged that those who play on the hardest modes shouldn't be expected to win as often, since there is no save and no replay in life.