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recently baptized Jazz fan needs some learnin'

hi all,

I've heard that Sloan uses very steady rotation patterns from game to game, is that true? If so, what are the minute-marks when substitutions usually occur?

I'm trying to figure out how guys are going to get enough minutes -- especially when Okur gets back. This is definitely a deeper team than last year!

It's pretty difficult to figure out the best rotation: who should start and why? I hope that Sloan lets Millsap and AK play a lot of minutes together, so I have them both in my preferred starting lineup. Obviously Jefferson and DWill are there, too. The SG is a big question for me... I think Bell is favored, but perhaps Hayward could start there? I know that Locke has been touting him as a possible starter. Can he guard the opposing SG?

thanks for the thoughts, particularly on the substitution pattern.
 
It changes every year.

No one knows.

Am I to interpret this response as a "Yes, a stable pattern emerges, but that pattern changes every year"?

I try to read this board semi-regularly and I know that there have been discussions about the desired starting line-ups, but has there been a discussion about what this pattern may look like given this particular set of players? I haven't seen one.
 
Locke just said right at the end of the first half that Hayward is really struggling. He might not even see the floor if he keeps playing like this.

In years past Sloan has been using a very set pattern for sub. But last year it was different. He played more with who was hot. But yes there well be a little bit of a set pattern for sure as the season goes on.
 
This is how I would like our rotation to be:

Dwill 38mpg, Watson 10mpg
Bell 25mpg, Miles 15 mpg, Hayward 8mpg
AK 15mpg, Miles 15mpg, Evans 10mpg, Hayward 8mpg
Millsap 32mpg, AK 16mpg
Jefferson 33mpg, Okur 15mpg
 
Sloan has often explained that he has future, long-term, goals in mind, and not just the game at hand, when it comes to substitutions. He does not want to "use a player up" at a young age by overplaying him, even if the player has the energy at the time.

Rather than rely on "gut feeling" and getting caught up in the moment, Sloan feels this is best gauged by a fairly strict time-table (for his go-to starters, anyway). He believes that proper rest is essential to both longevity and reducing the risk of injury. He also thinks that a predictable a playing schedule helps players adjust to expectations and reduces the uncertainty/anxiety that can arise from willy-nilly, ad hoc, substitution decisions.

But every coach in this forum seems to know 3 times as much as Sloan about such matters, so take it all with a grain of salt, ya know?
 
This is how I would like our rotation to be:

Dwill 38mpg, Watson 10mpg
Bell 25mpg, Miles 15 mpg, Hayward 8mpg
AK 15mpg, Miles 15mpg, Evans 10mpg, Hayward 8mpg
Millsap 32mpg, AK 16mpg
Jefferson 33mpg, Okur 15mpg

More minutes for Evans, less minutes for Chucker. No minutes for Fes? For being a sportnut, you're pretty stupid.
 
More minutes for Evans, less minutes for Chucker. No minutes for Fes? For being a sportnut, you're pretty stupid.

It's going to be really hard to get minutes for everybody. With Evans' emergence and Fesenko's apparent improvement it gets really hard. How deep into the bench do you think this team should play?
 
It changes every year.

No one knows.

Not really. Jerry's dream scenario, often put in place with overappreciated veterans, is to have the wings come out at roughly the 4 minute marks of the 1st and 3rd. The replacement wings will play until about 5 minutes of halves and games. Big Men have been more of a 3 man rotation traditionally. Some combo of Sap/Boozer/Memo is virtually all we've seen the last 3 or 4 years. As for Deron, he plays the entire 1st and 3rd quarters. He sits out for the 1st 5-8 minutes of the 2nd's and 4ths.

The variable is we've had a lot of injuries the last two years. Ironically, Jerry is at his best when he's forced to abandon his comfort zone. We're at our worst when he decides guys like Harpring and Knight absolutely have to get their minutes because they fit the box. With injuries, you see Jerry play more matchup, get experimental. Without them, you see the Jazz mechanically play guys in situations in which they are ill fitted to succeed and don't get pulled when they don't because they're Jerry's "core."
 
Deron never plays the entire 1st or 3rd quarter. Have you forgotten the last second shots by Knartlacio?

Even though you can't ever really unsee things, I've mostly blocked out the Milt Palacio Experience. I had moved to LA and had a roommate who was a Philly fan through all of that. He'd sometimes sit down with me during games and amuse himself by watching me lose my mind that Palacio was constantly playing in real NBA games in front of Deron Williams. I never had one decent answer for that. But it does illuminate an interesting point.

Jerry actually has gotten better. He got worse after the Palacio season trying to run the team like he always had with his iron clad substitution patterns. And it looked hopeless after the Brevin Knight Experiment, coupled with Harpring dragging his colostomy bag up and down the floor for absurd stretches, but the injuries of 2008 actually made him a better coach. Or at least it showed he really wasn't an old man who would lose his mind if the diner ran out of oatmeal. He got creative.

He's still not a guy who would recognize a Shannon Brown who fell into his lap and actually play him, but Sloan has shown far more flexibility than I ever dreamed these last two years. My fear is he doesn't personally like it, or learned nothing from it, and is dying to get back to mailing in minutes for trusted stalwarts like Palacio, Harpring, Knight, and I won't even mention the older guys.
 
Even though you can't ever really unsee things, I've mostly blocked out the Milt Palacio Experience. I had moved to LA and had a roommate who was a Philly fan through all of that. He'd sometimes sit down with me during games and amuse himself by watching me lose my mind that Palacio was constantly playing in real NBA games in front of Deron Williams. I never had one decent answer for that. But it does illuminate an interesting point.

Jerry actually has gotten better. He got worse after the Palacio season trying to run the team like he always had with his iron clad substitution patterns. And it looked hopeless after the Brevin Knight Experiment, coupled with Harpring dragging his colostomy bag up and down the floor for absurd stretches, but the injuries of 2008 actually made him a better coach. Or at least it showed he really wasn't an old man who would lose his mind if the diner ran out of oatmeal. He got creative.

He's still not a guy who would recognize a Shannon Brown who fell into his lap and actually play him, but Sloan has shown far more flexibility than I ever dreamed these last two years. My fear is he doesn't personally like it, or learned nothing from it, and is dying to get back to mailing in minutes for trusted stalwarts like Palacio, Harpring, Knight, and I won't even mention the older guys.

I agree with all of this, and holy **** your posts make me laugh. :lol:
 
Am I to interpret this response as a "Yes, a stable pattern emerges, but that pattern changes every year"?

I try to read this board semi-regularly and I know that there have been discussions about the desired starting line-ups, but has there been a discussion about what this pattern may look like given this particular set of players? I haven't seen one.


mostly deron goes out somewhere between 8-10 minutes in the game.
comes in few minutes into the 2nd quarter.
and repeat that for 3rd/4th qtr
 
Even though you can't ever really unsee things, I've mostly blocked out the Milt Palacio Experience. I had moved to LA and had a roommate who was a Philly fan through all of that. He'd sometimes sit down with me during games and amuse himself by watching me lose my mind that Palacio was constantly playing in real NBA games in front of Deron Williams. I never had one decent answer for that. But it does illuminate an interesting point.

Jerry actually has gotten better. He got worse after the Palacio season trying to run the team like he always had with his iron clad substitution patterns. And it looked hopeless after the Brevin Knight Experiment, coupled with Harpring dragging his colostomy bag up and down the floor for absurd stretches, but the injuries of 2008 actually made him a better coach. Or at least it showed he really wasn't an old man who would lose his mind if the diner ran out of oatmeal. He got creative.

He's still not a guy who would recognize a Shannon Brown who fell into his lap and actually play him, but Sloan has shown far more flexibility than I ever dreamed these last two years. My fear is he doesn't personally like it, or learned nothing from it, and is dying to get back to mailing in minutes for trusted stalwarts like Palacio, Harpring, Knight, and I won't even mention the older guys.

Wesley Matthews?
Shandon Anderson?
 
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